MIL recalls Mat Gamel, Brad Nelson designated for assignment

[sbrylski]

I'm wondering if there was a handshake agreement between Melvin and Nelson where if Nelson agreed to go down to Nashville he would be given regular PT and hopefully get his mojo back, and then after the interleague series or no later than September 1st make good on the handshake agreement and bring Nelson back up. I'm guessing that Nelson had already cleared waivers, and if he had not cleared waivers they would have pulled him back and the move not made.

 

Yeah, I'll go for this too. Good thinking. They'll have a pretty hard time sending Gamel down if he's hitting over .300 or smacks a couple of dingers in his limited PT though.

 

They might like to see if Randolph can give Gamel any fielding help in the next week or two as well.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Hall has an updated ZiPS projection of .253/.329/.451/.780, so we have to expect him to be pretty bad against lefties, going forward. I'm just worried that we'll have another Braun situation on our hands, defensively. Hall is at least an average defensive 3B this year and Gamel has basically no chance of matching that this year, IMO. I can accept that Gamel is better than Braun was, but Braun was epically bad, so that's little consolation for me. So count me as being in the concerned camp with regard to the prospect of Gamel getting starts at 3B this year.

Wait, you mean righties? He hits lefties really well.

[battlekow]

Nelson can't be outrighted, he has no options left.

This is incorrect. Outrighting is the only way (well, other than a rehab assignment) to send a player without options to the minors. Nelson has not yet been outrighted; he would have to clear waivers first, which takes three days. He also has the right to refuse the assignment.

[Fatter than Joey]

I'm guessing that Nelson had already cleared waivers, and if he had not cleared waivers they would have pulled him back and the move not made.

 

You can't revoke waivers at this point in the season. Outright waivers are irrevocable, we can't pull Nelson off of waivers. You are thinking about trade waivers.

 

Nelson has not yet been outrighted

 

Nelson was outrighted in 2006.

[igor67]

At least for the next couple of weeks I think we can take Melvin at face value. Gamel will come off the bench largely and DH in interleague. He'll probably sneak a start or two at third base just so they can see him in the game. And after that they'll take a look again at how he's doing and if they want to bring Catalanatto back or Nelson, or Kohlshansky maybe, but it also gives them a window to see how Counsell and Hall are doing. Craig has to cool off, but how much and can Hall stabilize at solid production??

 

On the other hand if I am Duffy I'd have to be pretty concerned because Gwynn and the Hurricane are both making strong cases for my job if you read bewtween the lines at Melvin's statement.

[JohnBriggs12]

Most are making more of this than it is. This move is more Fielder in 05 than it is Braun of 07. Gamel's up now because Nelson used up whatever boost he got from his great spring. Catalanotto needs 2-3 weeks of steady AB's to get ready to take over main PH role. Gamel benefits with some big league exposure and he'll DH in Minnesota.

Nelson's a nice kid a good AAA player. We wish him well. As Macha said last night, hopefully he'll get another shot somewhere. The fact is, he had to produce out of the gate in the role he was in and he didn't.

[Patrick425]

Sorry to ask this again (didn't get answered the first time I asked), but could someone please explain "Super 2". Actually, I somewhat understand why Gamel is a Super 2, I just don't know that I understand the ramifications. I believe he is can become arby eligible at an earlier date. How early? How long would they have had to wait to bring him up in order to avoid Super 2 status and early arbitration?

 

I thought there was some thread or something explaining this somewhere on the site, but I could not find it.

 

 

edit: Ok, I found the explaination (in the FAQ section). However, I'm still a little puzzled. How are we so sure he would be a Super 2 player? It sounds like if he has 86 days of service time this year, then after next year (correct?), he could become arby eligible. But if the Brewers only call him up for interleague and send him back down, even if they bring him up in Sept, I doubt that he would have 86 days. Also, if this is true, wouldn't he be FA eligible after 2013 (not 2015 as someone else stated)?

[naivin]

Most are making more of this than it is. This move is more Fielder in 05 than it is Braun of 07. Gamel's up now because Nelson used up whatever boost he got from his great spring. Catalanotto needs 2-3 weeks of steady AB's to get ready to take over main PH role. Gamel benefits with some big league exposure and he'll DH in Minnesota.

 

Nelson's a nice kid a good AAA player. We wish him well. As Macha said last night, hopefully he'll get another shot somewhere. The fact is, he had to produce out of the gate in the role he was in and he didn't.

This is exactly how I see it. Once Catalanotto is ready, he's up and Gamel goes back down to play every day, and be ready when the next opportunity arises.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I can't see a reason why we wouldn't start Gamel this afternoon against the tough righty, Josh Johnson. If we have him up here, let's use him.

[JJHardy7]

Most are making more of this than it is. This move is more Fielder in 05 than it is Braun of 07. Gamel's up now because Nelson used up whatever boost he got from his great spring.

 

I agree with this. My only question is what is he going to do until he is the DH? I really don't see the sense in him sitting on the bench and being a PH. That could take him out of his 'groove' as we've seen with Nelson. I would've liked to see him called up right before being the DH...that is unless Gamel starts half the games until we play the AL teams.

[whizkid]

On TMJ this morning Doug said they brought him up now to get some PAs and get acclimated before the Twins series. There was no mention of him playing defensively. I'm sure they'll work him out at 3B before games to get a first hand look and give him some instruction, but I'm not expecting to see him play in the field at all except maybe in a blowout. Less than two weeks isn't going to hinder his development long term. I'm expecting him to be sent back down until the Cle/Det series.

[JJHardy7]

On TMJ this morning Doug said they brought him up now to get some PAs and get acclimated before the Twins series. There was no mention of him playing defensively. I'm sure they'll work him out at 3B before games to get a first hand look and give him some instruction, but I'm not expecting to see him play in the field at all except maybe in a blowout. Less than two weeks isn't going to hinder his development long term. I'm expecting him to be sent back down until the Cle/Det series.

 

I've heard/read this too. I just don't think it makes much sense. He'll still be riding the bench. It's not like Mat has never been in the bigs either. I know he got hurt last year, but there's no need to call him up unless he's playing. I just hope he doesn't get in a funk or anything....or that he plays.

[jjfanec]

Macha was quoted in the journal as saying he did not get brought up to sit the bench. So, I am guessing he will do more than simply pinch hit. There will be a start or two in there.

[naivin]

Question now becomes, what if he comes up and pulls a Braun and hits the cover off the ball? Would they really send him back down, or do they try to return Bill Hall to a super-sub role? Nice problem to have I suppose, and I guess my answer is it would depend on defense. They seem to have an ok defensive team right now, and considering they also seem to have plenty of offense, they probably would send him back down. Hopefully it is a decision they will be forced to make.

[Fatter than Joey]

Would they really send him back down, or do they try to return Bill Hall to a super-sub role?

 

I'd hope they would continue to give Hall time so that he doesn't lose any regained trade value.

 

We have Counsell to back up the IF, we really don't need the "super sub".

[joepepsi]

Is it possible there is something wrong with Hardy and Counsell may be playing for ss for the next several games? This scenario would justify bringing in Gamel.

 

Otherwise I would have held onto Nelson through the Minnesota series. A couple games at DH and he might have started hitting. Then you're only a week away from Cat being ready to join the team.

[GormanHarvey]

That was my line of thinking joepepsi. Hardy has seemed like something has been sort of bothering him all season. His defense has been subpar for him and every time I see a shot of him in the dugout he looks really uncomfortable and is taking a lot of deep breaths. It almost looks like he could be having anxiety or panic attacks or something. I know this is a stretch, but to me he has been wearing a look of concern on his face most of the season...

[naivin]

Fatter than Joey wrote:

I'd hope they would continue to give Hall time so that he doesn't lose any regained trade value.

 

We have Counsell to back up the IF, we really don't need the "super sub".

That's kind of my point though. If Gamel comes here and hits MLB they way he hits AAA, I would have to believe there would be very real temptation to get keep him up and send him out there every day, and that would make some sense. That seemingly leaves Bill Hall without anywhere to play though. To continue to get him AB's they may need to move him around some. I don't really care for that idea, but the alternative (in this yet to happen scenario) would seem to be Hall not really playing at all, or becoming a RH PHer. Not sure that's a good idea.

 

As I said, I would assume gamel goes back down almost no matter what, but if a week and a half from now, he's hitting .325 with a couple HR's they would probably have to seriously consider keeping him around.

[kramnoj]

Others can explain Super 2 better than I, but I'll share what I understand. It basically gives a player 4 arby years, rather than 3. It doesn't affect their FA status. Battlekow mentioned this first in this thread, but it does seem like the Brewers waited long enough so that Gamel wouldn't earn a year of service time by being called up this year. That means the Brewers could leave Gamel up all year this year, and get 6 full years of service after this year.

 

If Gamel qualifies as a Super 2, then the Brewers only get Gamel at the minimum for the full seasons of 2010 and 2011 (and this year of course). Then Gamel will get 4 years of arbitration. When I and others were talking about this move costing the Brewers millions of dollars, this is what was being discussed. Because Gamel already has 28 service days, the Brewers couldn't wait until the typical June date that is mentioned to avoid Super 2 status. They would probably have had to wait until July, instead.

 

As another data point, in Braun's contract, he earns an additional $6M if he would have qualified as Super 2 after the 2009 season.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Is it possible there is something wrong with Hardy and Counsell may be playing for ss for the next several games? This scenario would justify bringing in Gamel.

 

The story broke before Hardy left the game with a headache, so I'm guessing they aren't related.

 

Refersh my memory with Prince in 2005. I believe he came up for interleague then went back down after a month or so? Then he came up in September? Do I have that right?

[kramnoj]

Looking at Prince's gamelog from 2005, he came up on June 13 to start interleague play. He stayed through 2 series after the last interleague game and played on July 3rd. His next game in the majors was Aug 18th and it looks like he was up for the rest of the season. So it looks like he got sent down for 6 weeks or so to get regular playing time.

[cruiserx43]

Maybe I am not seeing this like everybody else, but Hall still has value as a SS. Platooning him or benching him lower his value. Gamel can get a little instruction from Randolph who appears to have had a positive impact on Weeks, all the better. Those contract dollars allocated to Hall could mean a few arby dollars somewhere down the line for someone else. Check the kids AB's if he's ready put him after the trade deadline and ship off Hall.

[joepepsi]

Because Gamel already has 28 service days, the Brewers couldn't wait until the typical June date that is mentioned to avoid Super 2 status. They would probably have had to wait until July, instead.

I don't think September call ups count as major league service time.

[kramnoj]

I used to believe that, based on speculation I had seen elsewhere. I'm not sure what the basis for the belief is. But that belief doesn't appear to be true. If you look at Cot's: http://mlbcontracts.blogs...1/milwaukee-brewers.html it lists Gamel with service time of .028, and that means 28 days.

[BoKnowsBall]

Im pretty sure that September call ups just dont count for rookie standing for ROY awards