What if Ned......

[RoseBowlMtg]

put Hall into left field would you be all over Ned for doing it? Honestly!

[Ennder]

I didn't really like the move by Macha but I could care less if Yost did it. Yost would have already lost us a game or two with his idiotic bullpen usage most likely so I'd be yelling at him about that.

[whizkid]

Ned would have had Bill hit 3rd because that's where the LF hits and if he moved the other guys they wouldn't know what their role was.

[liveforoctober]

That is a good point with how negative people got on Yost last year. I didn't like the move either. He said he wanted to load the lineups with righties... and McGahee has outfield experience doesn't he? Him in left makes more sense. Also, with the way Hall has been playing third... I think it's weird to move him off that corner.

 

But yeah, back to your original question.. I think people would have called for Yost's firing last year had he done the same thing.

[giffted1]

No one is gonna admit that they'd criticize Ned if they didn't criticize Macha.

[JoeHova]

Playing Bill in the outfield made some sense, considering the fact that he had spent a whole season out there and CF is usually considered for more difficult to play than LF. That said, it does look bad when a guy gets injured while he is playing in his first game ever at a new position.

 

I wouldn't have criticized Ned for doing it, either. I don't mind a little versatility. For example, I thought it was pretty cool when Albert Pujols played 2nd base in that game last year. Bill at least theoretically has enough bat for the outfield so it isn't like playing Counsell or Willie Bloomquist out there.

[BADGERJOBOB]

Ned deserved all the criticism he got last year. The criticism was not over one specific decision but a build up of bad decisions that were made over a long period of time. Macha will be given the same leash as Yost received. If he makes the same number of bad decisions over numerous years that cost this team losses, he will be criticisized just as much.

[stoutdude04]

Ned deserved all the criticism he got last year. The criticism was not over one specific decision but a build up of bad decisions that were made over a long period of time. Macha will be given the same leash as Yost received. If he makes the same number of bad decisions over numerous years that cost this team losses, he will be criticisized just as much.

But, would YOU have been all over Ned if he made the decision? You decided not to answer that.

 

I probably wouldnt have been upset by it....then again, I didnt start to realize how bad need was until the AS break. Thanks for showing me the light.(ftj, dj)

[jeffy]

Actually I think I recall criticizing Ned and/or the organization for not moving Hall. I thought the sensible thing would have been to move him back to 3rd, when they started the year with a platoon aof Counsell and ???, but Ned wanted to keep him in CF.

 

I think the reason was Braun was expected, but clearly it would have been better to have made Braun go to the OF from the start and have had Hall at 3rd.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I didnt like the decision to start Hall in LF and said so at the time. I didnt like the decision because Hall has been gold glove quality at third and he shouldnt be moved. It was a bad decision regardless of who made it.

[Thurston Fluff]

To be perfectly honest I would have probably defended Ned more than I did Macha simply because I know anything Ned did got way over amplified vs how bad a move it was. I did not like the move and said so. If Ned had done it I would have said I'm not in favor but mentioned it's something that many other managers would have done and tried to see the rationale for it. That was the thing that aggravated me about a lot of the Ned criticism. Many if not most were things that happened all the time on every team by every other manager in the game. A lot of them even got several pages of people debating if it was good or not. Anything that has that much debate can't be all that stupid. Ned was not a good game manager but he was far from the idiot he was often portrayed as.

[joepepsi]

Ned would have had Bill hit 3rd because that's where the LF hits and if he moved the other guys they wouldn't know what their role was.

This occurred to me that night too! I didn't like the move, although Hall had at least played in the OF for most of one season. When you play guys out of position the risk of injury skyrockets. I would have stuck McGehee out there until he had a couple at bats, then put in Duffy. Granted McGehee's never played OF either, but at least if he got injured the effect on the team would be minimized.

[JohnBriggs12]

That is a good point with how negative people got on Yost last year. I didn't like the move either. He said he wanted to load the lineups with righties... and McGahee has outfield experience doesn't he? Him in left makes more sense. Also, with the way Hall has been playing third... I think it's weird to move him off that corner.

 

But yeah, back to your original question.. I think people would have called for Yost's firing last year had he done the same thing.

Hall played the entire 2007 season in CF. I think that trumps McGehee's limited OF time.

 

Personally, I loved the move and don't think Yost would have made it. Part of Hall's value is his versatility. Somehow, once he signed the multiyear deal, Yost got it in his head that he had to limit Hall to one position. To me that's not getting the bang for your buck. Hall wasn't all that bad in CF the second half of 2007. There's no doubt in my mind he could play everywhere but catcher. Right now he's needed at 3B, but with Gamel as the top prospect, that's a temporary situation at best. Unless he's traded, next year Hall could be seeing more time back in CF if they don't re-sign Cameron.

[logan82]

I think McGehee would have been preferable in LF over Hall. Not a big deal to me either way.

[phxMILWfan]

Ned was criticized because of his overall body of work. I don't think he was being bashed right away. Macha gets the benefit of the doubt because he managed a winner before, the team is winning, and we haven't seen his moves result in the team having a losing season or miss the playoffs yet.

[logan82]

we haven't seen his moves result in the team having a losing season or miss the playoffs yet.

 

It is debatable whether Ned cost our team a winning season or the playoffs in any year either.

 

I agree with BUC. Ned was overly criticized. Not necessarily by any one person, but almost every move he made upset somebody which is true of any manager. I think it was just more vocal due to frustration from so many consecutive losing seasons and high expectations. Sometimes unrealistic expectations. I think whoever was the manager over Ned's tenure would have been highly criticized.

[Ennder]

I think Ned got the criticism he deserved. That is what happens when you are a below average manager. It isn't the marginal moves that put it over the line it was the downright stupid ones he seemed to make at least once a month. Moves that were so bad they were likely the absolute worst thing he could have done. Things like batting Nix third when he played for Braun to 'keep the order set'. Things like leaving Shouse in vs a RH pitcher with the bases loaded. Things like PH Mench against a RH closer while Jenkins sits on the bench.

 

It is the same way I feel about Dusty Baker and why I'm glad I'm not an Astros fan.

[theavrock]

I think Ned got the criticism he deserved. That is what happens when you are a below average manager. It isn't the marginal moves that put it over the line it was the downright stupid ones he seemed to make at least once a month. Moves that were so bad they were likely the absolute worst thing he could have done. Things like batting Nix third when he played for Braun to 'keep the order set'. Things like leaving Shouse in vs a RH pitcher with the bases loaded. Things like PH Mench against a RH closer while Jenkins sits on the bench.

 

It is the same way I feel about Dusty Baker and why I'm glad I'm not an Astros fan.

 

Could not agree more. The thing about Ned were that he was a great players manager and motivator, but a horrible in game manager. His decisions always seemed to lack rationale and he consistently did what he thought instead of what the situation deemed necessary. In my opinions this is because of his lack of flexibility. I never expected to agree with all of Ned's decisions, nor do I with Macha, but if a situation screamed for something ie: some of the ones Ennder mentioned above, then get your head out of the clouds and do it instead of being so inflexible that you can't pull the trigger. The thing I like about Macha is he seems to have a much greater degree of flexibility.

[Baldkin]

It is the same way I feel about Dusty Baker and why I'm glad I'm not an Astros fan.

You mean Reds? Cuz, I mean... what'd Coop do to you?

[Ennder]

It is the same way I feel about Dusty Baker and why I'm glad I'm not an Astros fan.

You mean Reds? Cuz, I mean... what'd Coop do to you?

Oops yea, though I'm not much of a Coop fan as a manager either, heh.

[Roscoe Chill]

Not one mention of Mat Gamel in the entire thread? I'm disappointed. I think I just read on this very site, how there's no way Hall would play LF, and then BAM! Next day, Hall is in LF. If Braun is out of commission for any DL stint, this was a preview of what would happen IMO. Hall to LF...Gamel up.

[Schlitz001]

Bill Hall was not a good CF and is for that same reason probably not a good LF or RF. He made some pretty hideous plays out there in CF, mostly getting bad reads on flyballs off the bat. Yes he spent the better part of a year out there, but that doesn't mean he is a quality outfielder (see Ryan Braun at 3B).

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/2f03502795ca834868a1c9e33171aa2d7e8a5e9.pjpg

[davego]

Ned would have put Kevin Mench in LF and let him hit against the best RH closer in the game...I'm still bitter about that.

[DHonks]

I almost always loved how Ned managed. He used his best relievers in key spots, although I wish he would have used his closer in non-save situations with the game on the line (late in games, tied).

 

Macha appears to love playing his starters nearly every day just as much as Ned did. I've always liked managers like Garner and LaRussa that rotated their backups into the lineup somewhat frequently. I also really liked Ned's approach with his pitchers where he wanted to try to get one more inning out of his starters. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, but it often kept relievers off the DL.

[danzig6767]

I think Ned got the criticism he deserved. That is what happens when you are a below average manager. It isn't the marginal moves that put it over the line it was the downright stupid ones he seemed to make at least once a month. Moves that were so bad they were likely the absolute worst thing he could have done. Things like batting Nix third when he played for Braun to 'keep the order set'. Things like leaving Shouse in vs a RH pitcher with the bases loaded. Things like PH Mench against a RH closer while Jenkins sits on the bench.

In general i think baseball mangers get to much credit for team success and blame for team failure, but they can have some impact. It's early on, but Macha so far at least hasn't made any of the just completely head scratching moves where i sit there watching TV and thinking, what the hell is he doing which Ned was good for once in awhile.