Plate Discipline (ESPN Article + Hardy Quotes)

[tyguy20204]

Pretty good article from ESPN discussing the benefits of plate discipline and the difficulty in teaching players to have quality at-bats.

 

Jerry Crasnick: Plate Discipline

 

I highly recommend reading the whole article, but here's the bit from J.J.

 

The Brewers have a young, relatively free-swinging lineup that's reliant on the long ball to score runs. So some players were perplexed last year when then-manager Ned Yost held a meeting in New York and told them they weren't drawing enough walks. Shortstop J.J. Hardy said the directive bred a sense of confusion and tentativeness.

"We didn't walk enough, so we had a meeting about needing to walk," Hardy says. "Guys were like, 'Really?' You look at it from our perspective. Guys would be up there trying to work a walk. Then they'd take a pitch down the middle and think, 'That could have been a home run.'"

Walk and strikeout totals can be deceiving barometers. Although Abreu has averaged 123 strikeouts per season, that's an inevitable byproduct of working deep counts. At the opposite end of the scale, lots of young players are so afraid of striking out that they swing at a pitcher's pitch early in the count simply to put the ball in play.

When Hardy was 18 years old and playing rookie ball, he struck out only 14 times in 166 plate appearances. In hindsight, he realizes it was because he was swinging from the moment he stepped in the box.

This year, Milwaukee outfielder Ryan Braun, a renowned free swinger, has already drawn 14 walks -- a third of his total for all of 2008. Is Braun more selective? Perhaps. But pitchers have also learned to tread lightly around Braun because of his career .584 slugging percentage. He's not going to see many strikes because his reputation precedes him.

It's interesting that this year all the Brewers seem to be touting plate discipline, especially Dale Sveum's teaching of it, when Ned was harping on that same issue last year.

 

Did Yost simply have problems communicating his message without being arrogant? I can see him telling the players they need to walk more, but not explaining the whole idea behind it. Maybe Sveum is a little more nuanced with his teachings.

 

So what do you guys think? Can you teach plate discipline, and if so, how do you do it?

 

Are some players simply going to learn it as a natural evolution of their ballplaying skills? Examples from the article would be Jose Reyes and Orlando Hudson.

 

Are some players doomed to failure? Jeff Francouer, Corey Patterson, Brandon Phillips?

 

Is taking walks a by-product of being a good hitter or is being a good hitter a result of being able to take walks?

 

Should certain levels of the Brewers minor league system institute a policy where players must take pitches before they swing? In the article it says Oakland does this for rookie and Class A ball.

 

Do you think Jeff Francouer will be able to "find it" ?

[endaround]

If Yost really did say you guys need to walk more, yeah that's entirely wrong.

[Tbadder]

I think, and I'm far from an expert, that players have to know themselves. Fielder will never be a true low ball hitter, Rickie eats up the inside pitch, etc. Look for the pitches that you are productive at and going to smashing. On the other hand layoff, as best one can, on the pitch that gives you trouble--or learn to fight that pitch off with foul balls, in the hopes that your pitch will eventually show itself. All of this is easier said than done. I'd probably shoot myself outta sheer frustration, but that's what I would try to teach a young hitter: know yourself as best you can. I think that way you teach self-discipline (which I think one can learn) and not plate discipline (which seems iffy).

[steve267268]

I'm sure that's not ALL he said, but I'm glad we are finally getting some sort of insight as to why that move was made (Yost canned.) Granted, the page upon page upon page of "YOST!" posts in the IGT's ARE pretty convincing...

 

That said, i remember reading an article a week or two ago about how Svuem has been harping on the players about swinging at bad pitches. I'm glad, it doesn't seem like a bad thing at all to have a lineup of patient hitters. I haven't read Moneyball but I have always noticed how other teams' hitters just seem way more choosy than ours.

 

On the topic of self-discipline, I would think that people, in general, who have a lot of it in their off-the-field lives probably have an easier time with plate-discipline. I, for instance, would be up there hacking.

[sbrylski]

If Yost really did say you guys need to walk more, yeah that's entirely wrong.

Exactly. Its not about trying to walk. Its about swinging at the correct pitches.

[TooLiveBrew]

Did Yost simply have problems communicating his message without being arrogant?

 

I think Yost just had/has communication problems in general.

 

 

So what do you guys think? Can you teach plate discipline, and if so, how do you do it? ... Are some players simply going to learn it as a natural evolution of their ballplaying skills? ... Are some players doomed to failure?

 

I agree with Tbadder's take. It's ultimately up to the players to actually be able to put things together at the plate. Coaches can stress & teach things again & again, but for some players it just won't ever sink in. Other guys will either already know & practice what's being taught, and the remainder/vast majority of guys will take those teaching points & work them into their approach.

[endaround]

I'm sure that's not ALL he said, but I'm glad we are finally getting some sort of insight as to why that move was made (Yost canned.) Granted, the page upon page upon page of "YOST!" posts in the IGT's ARE pretty convincing...

 

That said, i remember reading an article a week or two ago about how Svuem has been harping on the players about swinging at bad pitches. I'm glad, it doesn't seem like a bad thing at all to have a lineup of patient hitters. I haven't read Moneyball but I have always noticed how other teams' hitters just seem way more choosy than ours.

 

On the topic of self-discipline, I would think that people, in general, who have a lot of it in their off-the-field lives probably have an easier time with plate-discipline. I, for instance, would be up there hacking.

 

The reason Yost was canned was the team was fading fast. The reason Yost was canned in the way he was is because he left Brian Shouse to intentionally walk Howard to face Pat Burrell with the season on the line. Its hard to really come up with a worse possible decision. Except maybe to allow Shouse to face two more right hand batters after that

[phxMILWfan]

It's all in communication. Managers always want their players to have better plate discipline. The difference however between "You guys need to draw more walks" and "Hey Corey lets watch some film. See this slider low and away that ends up in the dirt. You're never going to hit it. If you make contact it won't be for a hit. Let's work on that." Seems huge. Fans want a manager to scream and yell at the players when they are playing bad, myself included sometimes. But some teams respond to calm and level headed with accountability better.