Zambrano to DL

[danzig6767]

I don't miss AL baseball one bit and i have no doubt that if a poll was taken among fans of NL teams about if they'd rather switch to a DH rule, the results would be heavily in favor of no.

[clancyphile]

Stuff like this is eventually going to lead to the DH in the NL, I have a feeling.

I hope it happens a lot sooner than eventually. The Crew could sign Prince long-term and let Gamel play first.

[Teatoe993]

I really doubt the Brewers would gain much of an advantage if the NL went with the DH. Sure, we'd be able to hide our slick hitting, crappy fielding player in the DH spot. But then the rest of the NL will be able to do the same. It'd pretty much be a moot point. I fear the day the game of baseball morphs into a glorified home run derby. Can you imagine Chris Berman calling those games?

Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back Back!

[Ennder]

I don't miss AL baseball one bit and i have no doubt that if a poll was taken among fans of NL teams about if they'd rather switch to a DH rule, the results would be heavily in favor of no.

I bet the older crowd would say no and the younger crowd would say yes. (I say that as part of the older crowd too)

[RobertR]

I tend to think that since both leagues tend to carry the same amount of pitchers, there's nothing going on beyond simple economics. AL teams spend their budget on everyday players on 9 players and NL teams spend their budget on everyday players on 8 players, and since the leagues have similar resources, they get similar outcomes. $40 million worth of value, for instance, is $40 million worth of value.

 

Robert

[TooLiveBrew]

I fear the day the game of baseball morphs into a glorified home run derby.

 

This seems like a strawman to me. Adding one more batter for 16 teams in the league isn't going to have that drastic an effect. Besides, if you watch the AL, sure the game is different from the NL, but it's no HR derby.

[logan82]

Perhaps that's changed in recent years as the NL has some very good offensive ss now.

 

I will look back at a few more years on Saturday when I get time unless somebody else looks. Looking at just 2008, it is more than just one position where the NL has much better hitting not just SS.

 

Arranged in order of the defensive spectrum.

Position - NL OPS-AL OPS

C- equal

SS - +44

2B - -3

CF - +14

3B - +8

RF - -22

LF - +37

1B - +45

DH - -58

P - +43

 

At 6 positions the NL has better players on average.(some are close enough to be considered equal) It only represents one year and is far from conclusive. I think it shows that AL managers are taking advantage of being able to put a defensive liability with a good bat in a position where he isn't as likely to hurt a team. The traditional NL "get them in the lineup" positions(1B, LF) get much better production than their AL counterparts.

 

 

As far as the DH, the NL does use a form of it already; they just call it a pinch hitter. Last year Brewer pitchers made 365 plate appearances in 162 games.

 

Giving 365 PA to a pitcher instead of even an average hitter is a drastic difference over the course of a season. Not sure of the exact numbers, but you would probably be looking at wins instead of just runs. In The Book they talked about optimizing lineups and the biggest gains were made by not letting your 2 worst pitchers ever hit. Piggybacking them with a long reliever.

[whizkid]

I bet the older crowd would say no and the younger crowd would say yes. (I say that as part of the older crowd too)

I've done my part in raising a new generation of purists. I'm not sure you're right.

 

The AL has dominated interleague the last 4 years. Scroll down here. I believe the DH was in effect in '97, '99 and '03.

 

 

For me baseball is a game of changing emotions. A pitcher unexpectedly getting a timely hit or a HR or drawing a walk affects my emotional level positively or negatively more than does a big bopper doing what big boppers normally do.

[Nottso]

The Brewers switching to the NL had a very large part in increasing my awareness/love for the team. I was always a huge Packers fan, and really never cared that much for baseball (Please don't crucify me. I'm old and fragile). I'm still a Packers fan, but the Brewers now come first for me. With free agency wrecking the NFL, baseball became more appealing to me as I could kinda keep a watch on the minors and see players developing. When we made the switch to the NL, I was hooked. I absolutely love the strategy of it all. The construction and use of the bullpen is so much more important in the NL, with so many long-term implications, that every pinch-hit or double switch can make a big difference down the road (good or bad).

 

Surely, I can't be the only one draw in by the switch to the NL. There must be others.

[Dragonbait]

I prefer the NL style of the game. For every pitcher who can't hit, you can find one that can.

 

As for them gettin hurt... I think we can agree the odds of a pitcher getting hurt running the bases

is less than them throwing thier arm's out.

[Thurston Fluff]

For me baseball is a game of changing emotions. A pitcher unexpectedly getting a timely hit or a HR or drawing a walk affects my emotional level positively or negatively more than does a big bopper doing what big boppers normally do.

 

Great point. Having the unexpected happen is part fothe fun. What was more unexpected than Ben Sheets getting a base hit after the team intentionally walked someone to get to him? How much more satisfaction was that vs someone like Prince getting the same hit?

[TooLiveBrew]

For every pitcher who can't hit, you can find one that can.

 

I doubt this is true. Pitchers on the whole are a woeful group of hitters. Guys like Gallardo & Zambrano are definitely the exceptions.

 

 

EDIT: For reference's sake, here is the NL composite batting line for pitchers in 2008 (5,578 PA) -- .140/.178/.177/.354

[Ennder]

Also the pitchers who can hit generally get worse as they get older. Joe Sheehan had a chat the other day and mentioned that the best hitting pitchers are the ones who spend very little time in the minors so don't have time to lose their ability before making the majors. Pitchers just do not get enough ABs to stay in hitting form and I stand by what I said before, there is no bigger mismatch in professional sports than watching a pitcher try to hit. A good high school hitter can hit as well as many pitchers in the majors right now. Probably the second biggest mismatch is watching a bad free throw shooter.

[joepepsi]

For me baseball is a game of changing emotions. A pitcher unexpectedly getting a timely hit or a HR or drawing a walk affects my emotional level positively or negatively more than does a big bopper doing what big boppers normally do.

 

Great point. Having the unexpected happen is part fothe fun. What was more unexpected than Ben Sheets getting a base hit after the team intentionally walked someone to get to him? How much more satisfaction was that vs someone like Prince getting the same hit?

I find the frustrations of squandered opportunities far outweigh the fun of the unexpected happening. It was painful last summer watching Cameron or Hart get on base only to have the outmakers at the bottom of the order squander the opportunity.

[endaround]

I think this is a nice response to Mike Imrem:

http://books.google.com/books?id=BS4DAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0_0#PPA41,M1

[whizkid]

It was painful last summer watching Cameron or Hart get on base only to have the outmakers at the bottom of the order squander the opportunity.

 

Since it happens to the opponents too, I can deal with the frustration.

[Thurston Fluff]

Pitchers just do not get enough ABs to stay in hitting form and I stand by what I said before, there is no bigger mismatch in professional sports than watching a pitcher try to hit.

 

How can you say this after seeing Carlos Lee in the field. The reason the DH was instituted was to give old players who couldn't really play a chance to stick around for a few years. If you don't want to see players doing something they are not good at then you should be in favor an entire lineup of DH's. Then we could watch super defenders make great plays in the field and never have to watch Jose Conseco have a ball bounce off his head for a ground rule double or Prince Fielder attempt to dig a ball out of the dirt. Of course then the offense would go down the tubes because very few balls would fall in, but the best of the best are playing only what they are good at right? Should make the game better shouldn't it?

[TheCrew07]

Isn't the number 9 spot in the order outperforming the 8 spot in the order at this point?

[Ennder]

How can you say this after seeing Carlos Lee in the field.

 

Carlos Lee is a much better fielder than Ben Sheets is a hitter, it isn't even close.

[TooLiveBrew]

Isn't the number 9 spot in the order outperforming the 8 spot in the order at this point?

Not sure if you meant for the Crew or for the NL, but for the Brewers, here are the splits so far:

 

#8 -- .213/.298/.258/.557

#9 -- .176/.239/.259/.498

[Thurston Fluff]

Carlos Lee is a much better fielder than Ben Sheets is a hitter, it isn't even close.

 

Semi joke but the main point is if you no longer have any pitcher hitting there will be something else as the biggest mismatch in sports. That would most likely be forcing big nonathletic power hitters attempt to field. Just because a certain position isn't as good at a minor part fo the job doesn't mean they shouldn't have to do that portion of their job just like every other player does. AS was pointed out Kendall isn't much better at hitting than many pitchers and Bf's favorite whipping boy of years past, Chad Moeller was no better at all. Most teams look for defense first catchers so the next logical step is to make it a defense only position and have two DH's. Then shortstop will be the next position teams feel they can get away with as a defense only positions since it is so important. Then we will be watching slick fielding shortstops flail away at a .200 clip until we get sick of watching that and DH for them. Of course now that there are so many great fielding players on defense we will have much worse hitting so there will be a need to substitute the center fielder for a better hitter and the second baseman is just too small to hit or enough power. The same arguments that can be used for DHing the pitcher can be used for every position.

[Ennder]

Carlos Lee fielding is a minor mismatch and is no big deal so I just don't buy that excuse. Lee also gets just as many chances to field a ball as any LF does so it isn't the same thing at all.

 

Kickers in the NFL don't have to play offense, the goalie in hockey isn't expected to play the wing, pitchers in baseball shouldn't be hitting. They just do not get enough reps to stay effective as hitters and it increases their odds of getting hurt. This is one of those things that stays around because of the history of the game.

 

Catchers still get 400+ PA as a starter in baseball, pitchers get like 75 a year, the comparison isn't really valid at all. If pitchers actually hit 400 times a year and just stunk at it I'd say you are correct, the fact that they don't get enough AB to effectively keep their hitting skills is the entire point.

[ELCABALLO45]

Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Steve Nash all have to play defense, pitchers should have to hit.

[billyhallfan]

Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Steve Nash all have to play defense, pitchers should have to hit.

nobody in the nba plays defense.

[crewcrazy]

Isn't the number 9 spot in the order outperforming the 8 spot in the order at this point?

Not sure if you meant for the Crew or for the NL, but for the Brewers, here are the splits so far:

 

#8 -- .213/.298/.258/.557

#9 -- .176/.239/.259/.498

I chuckled a bit when I noticed the pitchers have a higher SLG than the 8th spot (usually Kendall), even if it is only one point.