Zambrano to DL

[strawbossisevil]

Ender,

 

I don´t see the traditionalists letting the DH into the NL. I think the MLB likes the fact that it has two somewhat different products to offer. I will admit though that having the DH does give the AL teams a slight advantage in head to head games. I do prefer the strategy of the NL though over the AL, but that´s just me.

[Invader3K]

I prefer the NL "style" a bit too...but I think eventually enough owners will pressure the league to make the change. As silly as Hank (Hal?) Steinbrenner's rant was last season after Wang got hurt running the bases, I think owners will get tired of risking their high investments on pitchers in a somewhat needless fashion.

[TheCrew07]

How would Prince not be an expensive DH at over 10 million per season? Thank you for proving my point for me.

 

What's the difference if they pull a muscle trying to field a bunt? Maybe we can put a 10th fielder out there and put the pitchers behind a screen to protect them. Then maybe they can only pitch 40 pitches in a game so they last longer before the inevitable injury strikes...

 

These guys are paid a ton of money to play a game, they should be able to fulfill the requirements of the position, just like any of us meeting the requirements of our job. If a player is incapable of playing his position, then the team made a bad decision paying for his services.

 

I too hated watching Sheets at the plate, partly because he ran like a duck but mostly because he didn't care. I'd rather MLB doesn't become the NFL where pitchers are so sacred they have special rules protecting them like the QBs do.

[PrinceEatMeat]

At least something happens in the NL game. There are double switches, and pinch-hitters all the time. In the AL, all that happens is an occasional pinch-hitter for a catcher or weak hitter late in games. I find the NL game to be more interesting and excited. It involves a lot more strategy, even when it comes to pitching changes. In the AL, managers never need to worry about having to hit for anyone really, much less the pitcher. I think the DH should be taken out completely. Make the managers work a little.

[TooLiveBrew]

The DH would only make it harder for the Brewers to compete because instead of having cheap bench players they'd have to drop additional money on a player who's only value is that of a hitter, costing the team millions extra every season.

 

The Brewers would have benefitted greatly from the DH in recent memory. Having Overbay in the lineup along with Prince would have been a nice option for Melvin (granted, getting Bush back was nice... Lyle/Prince was just an example that popped into my head)

[Thurston Fluff]

I sure hope so, I will never understand why people think watching a pitcher other than a Gallardo type hit is entertaining and while it 'adds more strategy', it really doesn't add very much.

 

Is it any less entertaining than watching Prince field a ball or Braun try to play third? If you want the best of the best doing only what they do best why not have all DH's and let the top defensive players field? Then we could watch only perfect baseball being played without having to worry at all about certain players limitations or hiding their weaknesses in 50% of the game. To me baseball is supposed to be played by the same players offensively and defensively until the manager takes them out. If the pitcher is playing on the field he is one of nine, and only nine, until he is taken out of the game. Then the team has to be built around player's strengths and weaknesses. A GM has to take all aspects of a player into account while assembling his team. The manager has to make choices based on all aspects of the game not just how well someone hits or fields.

[Ennder]

"Make the managers work a little. "

 

90% of these choices could be made by my 8 year old son though, it doesn't really add strategy to PH counsell vs a RH pitcher. A tiny bit of strategy goes into Counsell or Duffy or Nelson but it is a tiny small little bit.

 

It is just something people are going to disagree on though so no real use arguing it. Eventually the financial side of baseball will probably force the DH on the NL whether they like it or not.

 

In all of sports a typical pitcher hitting is the biggest mismatch I've seen. No other player in any sport is less prepared to do a job than the majority of pitchers trying to hit at a major league level. I'm not surprised that every season a bunch of pitchers get hurt while batting.

[Thurston Fluff]

Is there some place we can go to find out if there are more pitching injuries in the NL than the AL?

 

 

It is just something people are going to disagree on though so no real use arguing it. Eventually the financial side of baseball will probably force the DH on the NL whether they like it or not.

 

I'm not sure there is a financial benefit to having one more starter on every team. Seems like the players union wouldn't be so adamant about keeping the DH if it was cheaper for teams to have a DH.

 

In all of sports a typical pitcher hitting is the biggest mismatch I've seen.

 

It wouldn't be if you had to watch David Ortiz field every day.

[thebruce44]

90% of these choices could be made by my 8 year old son though, it doesn't really add strategy to PH counsell vs a RH pitcher. A tiny bit of strategy goes into Counsell or Duffy or Nelson but it is a tiny small little bit.

 

Tell that to Ned Yost, John Russell, or Bob Brenly. The NL has a lot more strategy and I personally hate the DH rule.

[Ennder]

I'm not sure there is a financial benefit to having one more starter on every team. Seems like the players union wouldn't be so adamant about keeping the DH if it was cheaper for teams to have a DH.

 

The financial aspect is the lost time from pitchers getting injured. Eventually we'll get enough high profile enough pitcher injuries that something will happen. Also the longer time goes by the fewer purists there will be who want to keep things the way they have always been.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Yeah we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. If people are that passionate about "strategy" when there's 1 more double switch and a couple more bunts per game when we could be seeing an extra quality hitter at the plate instead then to each is own. There's also a reason that the AL has dominated the NL in interleague play over the last 10 years: The DH.

[Thurston Fluff]

This is not meant to be all that sicentific but if there is a true danger of pitchers getting injured then there should be more injuires to NL pitchers than AL. I will continue to look for better stats that help us further but thought the current DL in each league would be a useful starting point until more informative ones can be found. I looked at starting pitchers since relievers have so few ab's.

The AL currently has 23 starting pitchers o the DL. The NL has 19. Of those 19 only two of them are related to hitting. I think we could argue there is as much danger in having to pitch to better batters 1-9 than there is in standing at the plate 3 times every five days.

[Thurston Fluff]

There's also a reason that the AL has dominated the NL in interleague play over the last 10 years: The DH.

 

Since half the games are played in the NL with no DH this cannot be true.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

It sure can because there is no advantage in the NL parks because the AL and NL pitchers are equally crappy, while in the AL parks, the advantage is significant.

[logan82]

I don't think it would make it harder for the Brewers to compete. They could be putting Gamel or Nelson in the DH spot and be perfectly competitive at a cheap price.

 

While cheaper right now, it uses uses up service time. Service time is invaluable to us.

 

I don't really care one way or the other about the DH. One plus would be less bunting.

 

I thought Zambrano would end up on the DL this year. I just thought it would be for an arm injury, not a hamstring pull.

[Thurston Fluff]

It sure can because there is no advantage in the NL parks because the AL and NL pitchers are equally crappy, while in the AL parks, the advantage is significant.

 

That doesn't mean the AL is better because of the DH. It only means the AL has an advantage in AL games vs the NL because they have to pay for a DH while NL teams don't because they only play a handful of games in the AL each year. Which goes back to the fact that there is no financial advantage to a DH.

[logan82]

Batting lines for 2008

 

AL .268/.336/.420/.756

NL .260/.331/.413/.744

 

While AL teams add a good hitter to the lineup as the DH they usually also swap out a good bat for a defensive specialist at another position. In many cases at SS. Link

 

2008 OPS

Position/AL/NL

1/.312/.355

2/.715/.715

3/.793/.838

4/.749/.746

5/.768/.776

6/.694/.738

7/.766/.803

8/.746/.760

9/.810/.788

10/.774/.716

 

I think 10 refers to the DH and 11 pinch hitters.

[Thurston Fluff]

So what you're saying is the DH allows a team to have a crappy hitting shortstop or catcher on the team instead of just having a crappy hitting pitcher? What's the point in that?

[jeffy]

This is not meant to be all that sicentific but if there is a true danger of pitchers getting injured then there should be more injuires to NL pitchers than AL. I will continue to look for better stats that help us further but thought the current DL in each league would be a useful starting point until more informative ones can be found. I looked at starting pitchers since relievers have so few ab's.

The AL currently has 23 starting pitchers o the DL. The NL has 19.

 

Don't forget that The AL currently has 20% more pitchers on the DL, despite the fact that the NL has 14% more teams and pitchers.

[TooLiveBrew]

Well if the defense traded for offense is extreme enough (like, say, Adam Everett in his prime), then it could be a nice boost.

[logan82]

So what you're saying is the DH allows a team to have a crappy hitting shortstop or catcher on the team instead of just having a crappy hitting pitcher? What's the point in that?

That is my interpretation of the stats.

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm not doubting your interpretation logan3825 I'm just wondering what the net benefit is to the offense if the crappy hitting pitcher is replaced with a crappy hitting fielder. If they want great fielding and great hitting then just have a separate offense and defense and be done with it. Personally I think having to deal with players weaknesses is all part of what makes the game so fun.

[joepepsi]

So what you're saying is the DH allows a team to have a crappy hitting shortstop or catcher on the team instead of just having a crappy hitting pitcher? What's the point in that?

That is my interpretation of the stats.

I don't think it's been historically true that AL teams can afford to carry a crappy hitting ss or catcher because of the DH. In fact, hasn't the opposite been true? Since fewer runs are scored in the NL, each individual run is more valuable. Therefore it's in the best interest of an NL team to place a greater emphasis on run prevention than in the AL. That's why the NL has been more likely to have Everett and Ausmus types in the everyday lineup while the AL is more likely to go with Jeter and Posada. Perhaps that's changed in recent years as the NL has some very good offensive ss now.

 

As far as the DH, the NL does use a form of it already; they just call it a pinch hitter. Last year Brewer pitchers made 365 plate appearances in 162 games. That's 2.25 plate appearances per game. So, the starter bats twice in a game in the NL, then the manager designates other players to hit in the pitcher's spot the rest of the game. If you figure 700 PA, that's 335 times the team designates a hitter to bat in the pitcher's spot. (The double switch is hardly rocket science. Certainly not as much as playing platoon differentials; this seems to be a challenge for many managers.)

 

The biggest difference with the DH is the games are slower in the AL. Some of this is because of the DH himself, but also I suspect there are more mid inning pitching changes in the AL. AL managers don't have to make that mid game decision to pinch hit for the starter so can keep trotting him out there until he gets too many runners on base, then go to the bullpen. NL games move along at a better pace, but personally I'd rather give those 365 PA ( and that .184 slg pct!) each year to someone who can hit.

[logan82]

I'm not doubting your interpretation logan3825

I know, I think there might be other ways to interpret it though.

 

There is a small overall gain in offense with the DH. There is probably a small gain in defense as well that brings down the gains on offense. The difference between a pitcher and the worst regular player is still pretty dramatic.

[Tbadder]

Have we seriously reached a point where our expectations have been lowered to such a degree that we don't expect people paid to play a SPORT to be conditioned properly so that they can run 90 feet without getting hurt? This is like when people were complaining that the Brewers tested 60y dash times and players got hurt. The are professional athletes, not fat men playing bar league softball, how about they simply do what is required to play their position.

 

The DH would only make it harder for the Brewers to compete because instead of having cheap bench players they'd have to drop additional money on a player who's only value is that of a hitter, costing the team millions extra every season.

 

Bravo Crew! Thanks so much. One of the things that made baseball special was that everyone would have to catch, throw, field, and bat. Do you know how unique that makes baseball. Specialization is weak; the DH is weak. Even a closer can get an at bat potentionally. But a player who doesn't have to do 3/4 of what a sport is all about is ridiculous and pathetic. Back in the day these malingers who could only hit were sent packing or the team had to live with the weakness. But the DH only lowers the common denomiator of baseball. Yeah, maybe all teams eventually will be built like the Texas Rangers--that'd be fun.