Time to have a serious discussion about our bench

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

I am very happy with the way out team is playing right now, but if this trend holds, it appears we're going to have a great deal of close (or one run) games this year. With Braun day to day with back stiffness, Mike Rivera on the DL, and Counsell getting some starts at SS due to JJ's slow start I think we're especially weak right now in situational batting (1st and 3rd, 2 outs, pitcher spot up).

 

These are the stats of our bench thus far:

 

C Counsell .278/.381/.333/.714 36 AB

M Rivera .308/.286/.462/.747 13 AB

C McGehee .222/.222/.222/.444 9 AB

C Duffy .125/.263/.188/.451 16 AB

B Nelson .000/.053/.000/.053 18 AB

 

The question is, is this a small sample and we can expect these numbers to improve or do we currently have a handful of AAAA players who are on the 25 man because we don't want to start the Arby clocks, don't feel our better prospects are ready defensively, or we simply can't afford to spend any money on our bench (thus no Edmonds, Graffy, etc.)

[Ennder]

The samples are too small to make any conclusions about the bench at all. If you were worried about the bench going into the year you still should be worried, if you thought the bench was fine going into the season then nothing in those statlines suggest it isn't fine.

 

A random 20 or fewer AB just doesn't mean anything.

[tyguy20204]

For what it's worth, I think Gamel will be called up when they're sure that he'll no longer qualify for Super 2 status. That way they'll have a quality LH pinch-hitter (Sorry, Brad) and someone to spell Billy Hall with from time to time.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

For what it's worth, I think Gamel will be called up when they're sure that he'll no longer qualify for Super 2 status. That way they'll have a quality LH pinch-hitter (Sorry, Brad) and someone to spell Billy Hall with from time to time.

The problem in bringing Gamel up is that he won't get those daily reps at 3rd, which is what he clearly needs.

[pogokat]

If they call Gamel up, it will be hall that's on the bench...

[tyguy20204]

Yeah, you could definitely make those arguments (Wisconsin and pogokat), and you might be right, but I wouldn't mind seeing him transitioned in as a bench player to start, especially if the season wears on, we're in contention, and it's evident that the bench is a problem area.

[TheCrew07]

If Gamel is on the bench they've given up on him at 3B.

[tyguy20204]

I don't necessarily agree with that.

[JCREW]

Regardless of whether or not we've given up on him at 3B, I don't want him up in a pinch-hitting role. He's a prospect and he should be getting playing time. Period.

 

Although the sample size is small, one glaring thing is that we don't have that second veteran bat off the bench. (Kapler) Young guys don't seem to get in the right frame of mind to be off and on bench players. Counsell and Kapler seem like they're always ready to go. Brad, on the other hand has managed to strike out in almost half of his ABs (8 of 18).

 

Unless we have a veteran to put in one of these places, I don't see the point in losing control of a slumping player just to put another youngster into a spot where veterans just seem to do better.

[dlk9s]

Forgetting about the hitting numbers for a moment (small sample size, obviously), keep in mind that the guys on the bench also play positions in the field. We actually have a pretty nice bench from a versatility perspective. Counsell can play anywhere on the infield and it appears that McGehee can play anywhere but SS (I don't know if he can, but he hasn't). Duffy can play any OF position and play it well, it seems. Nelson is the most limited, but he still seems like a competent enough corner OF and can play 1B. Rivera is a backup C, and a good one at that. I feel that this gives the Brewers a nice advantage when it comes to substitutions because there are multiple options for every position. McGehee can even play catcher if need be.

[strawbossisevil]

No way they bring up their top prospect to sit on the bench. At worst, he would be platooned with Hall.

[JoeHova]

I don't necessarily agree with that.

 

I don't either. Prince, a far better (and younger) prospect than Gamel, was used as a bench player during his first season. He was up for about 2 1/2 months and only got 3 starts in the field. That's not to say that I would be in favor of Gamel being used almost exclusively as a bench player but the team has shown the willingness to use top prospects in that role in the recent past.

[endaround]

The difference there is Fielder had nothing to really work on in the minors. Gamel needs to learn a defensive position be it 3B/1B/OF at some point this season.

[BrewCrewForever]

Gamel is not coming up until they have a starting spot for him somewhere. It would just not making any sense to sit him on the bench and not play everyday.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I think Fielder was at least seen as being competent at first base, while Gamel still seems to be something of a butcher.

[Brewer Fever]

Look for Gamel to be brought up for the series at Minnesota to be our DH. At least according to Gammons...

 

Mat Gamel is hitting over .370 and has five homers off left-handed pitchers with Milwaukee's Triple-A Louisville club. Bill Hall is hitting over .300, so Gamel may have to wait, although Doug Melvin is thinking of bringing Gamel up when the Brewers begin playing American League teams later this month and allowing him to DH.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4124710&name=gammons_peter

[Invader3K]

It still seems like it would be a bit of a waste to me...though they probably figure using lots of options with Gamel won't be a big issue. But beyond a few series against AL teams, what do they do with him then? Send him back down to AAA to continue his defensive work? What if he's killing the ball? Do you have to platoon him with Hall at that point? Bill Hall hasn't exactly played himself out of a starting role up to this juncture in the season.

 

I guess I almost think they should just use Nelson in the DH role, assuming he's at least had one hit by that point. Anything is better than "Tony Gwynn - DH" like we saw last season, though.

[Fatter than Joey]

No way they bring up their top prospect to sit on the bench. At worst, he would be platooned with Hall.

 

Right -- I don't like the idea of Gamel platooning with Hall either.

 

If Braun is going to miss a lot of time, it probably is the blue screen of death for 2009. If that is, in fact the case I'd try to get Hall enough PT so he could be traded. I would think Hall's stock has risen a lot from last year.

[JohnBriggs12]

They can (and should) find another solution other than either Duffy or Nelson as a replacement for Braun if he were to end up on the DL. In Nelson's case, there is not only an offensive dropoff but a defensive one as well. Duffy is fine defensively but is basically Tony Gwynn Jr. with his bat.

 

Internally, they could just stick Gamel out there in LF and let him learn on the job. People seem to forget too that Hall spent a year in CF. Is it that far fetched to put him in LF and bring Gamel up to play 3B?

 

Externally, vets Jenkins, Edmonds, Catalanotto are still out there and still capable of being productive.

[endaround]

No they really aren't capable of being productive. Jenkins would maybe give you a 750-780 OPS while platooned. Catalanatto would be worse with horrendous defense. Edmonds might be able to give you something.

[Invader3K]

My worry with Edmonds is he's older and probably not that great defensively anymore. I imagine he's better than the other options with the bat, though.

[joepepsi]

If the season goes sour without Braun and Hall continues to hit well, I suspect you'll see Billy traded by the deadline and Gamel brought up.

[topper09er]

The difference there is Fielder had nothing to really work on in the minors. Gamel needs to learn a defensive position be it 3B/1B/OF at some point this season.

You cant "learn" how to be an infielder when you are in AAA and have been playing baseball your entire life. You either have the quick hands and strong arm or you dont. Clearly, Gamel is not good enough to play 3B and HE NEVER WILL BE. I think they should leave him in AAA and start getting him some reps at whatever his future position will be (Either 1B when we trade Prince or RF and we move Hart to CF) There is no point to leave Gamel at 3B in AAA or the majors.

[Never Outhustled]

endaround wrote:

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The difference there is Fielder had nothing to really work on in the minors. Gamel needs to learn a defensive position be it 3B/1B/OF at some point this season.

I'm thje biggest proponet here for moving Gamel to a new position, but Gamel is a better 3B right now than Fielder is a 1B. Fielder is awful at 1B, and the Brewers could have used keeping him in the minors as motivation to at least learn the proper fundamentals of stretching for throws. I do agree Gamel should learn a different position, and he could get plenty of ABs as a backup at LF/RF/1B/PH. Gamel is even a better PH option versus LHP than MaGehee.

 

 

 

Heres my major issue with the bench. The Brewers face a LHSP tonight. If Braun isn't available, who starts in LF? Nelson and Duffy can't even hit RHP, and one of them is going to start in LF versus a LHP? I think the Brewers really errored in spring training not getting MaGehee reps in the OF. He hasn't played the position as a pro, but he did play the OF in college.

[endaround]

The point is Fielder wasn't going to get better at 1B no matter how long he was working at AAA. For Gamel he either has to show improvement at 3B or get moved this year in AAA (likely RF). Either way sitting on the bench in Milwaukee won't accomplish that.