Indians call up Matt LaPorta

[BADGERJOBOB]

My take on that trade (not that anyone asked) is that Matt for CC was 'worth' it as it lead to a playoff appearance. While The 'Crew did get bounced out in the first round, you can't advance if you don't get in. 2006 Cards are just a recent example. I suspect most Florida fans would say squeezing in via the WC worked out ok for their team.

I wasn't thrilled with the trade but the Brewers had a chance to seriously contend for a championship last year. Would you trade LaPorta for a World Series ring? You bet and if Sheeter would have stayed healthy and our offense didn't just tank that last month, we could have done just that. Plus Yo proved that he was back in his playoff appearance. It was a gamble that had to be made even if I didn't like it. Unfortunately it did not work out as great as it could have.

[BADGERJOBOB]

If we won the world series it probably would have been worth it. But you can't really look at it like that. Doug should be doing what is best for the team not only now, but long term. Based on probability, it is more likely we win a world series if we either keep the LaPorta package or trade them for someone that will be around for awhile.

 

The mindset some people have on here is driving me crazy. THIS IS NOT THE BREWERS FROM THE 1990's! I don't care that we didn't make the playoffs in a long time. Those teams didn't have 2 of the top 15 hitters in baseball on the team. Those teams didn't have the overall depth at each position that we currently do now. We have a chance to be competitive for awhile. Stop bringing up all the bad brewers teams because they do not matter how this team in the future can perform and act like we had to go for it last year just because we "had a chance".

Its funny that your type of mindset is what makes others around here just as crazy. I wasn't a fan of the trade(would have rather traded Gamel over LaPorta) but I see nothing wrong with it. (1) At the time, we had a chance to seriously contend for a Championship by adding CC, not just a playoff drive. CC and Sheeter the way he was pitching was as good as it was going to get in the playoffs with starting pitchers). (2) LaPorta was blocked from coming up to the majors for the near future and the only way for him to come up would be to trade other players. Players who have proven their worth in the majors. As great as LaPorta is in the minors, still no gaurantee that he would be great in the majors. (3) As great a hitter as LaPorta is, he still not an all around great player. (4) Sometimes you do just have to go for it. All the teams do it. (5) Our farm system is still in good shape (6) We did add high compensatory picks for the loss of CC (7) Its not like we traded away Prince, Braun, JJ or Hart- young players in the majors for a rental, it was a prospect (8) Ideally it would have been great if we could have had CC for longer then half a year but then we wouldn't have gotten CC for what we gave up, it would have been Escobar and Jeffries and more and for what, Peavy????? Someone who probably wouldn't have got us into the playoffs last year while really mortgaging the future.

 

Bottom line is that it was a move that had to be made and I applaud the Brewers for that but you are right this is not the Brewers from the 1990s and THANK GOD for that. We actually tried to go for it for once. Something that hasn't been done for a long long time.

[TheCrew07]

People keep playing the "what if" game...

 

If Sheets stays healthy and the offense doesn't tank, a lesser pitcher (a long term solution) could have had the same net result.

 

You can't say "what if" in favor of the trade without considering the "what if" on the other side.

 

Sheets getting hurt was entirely predictable given his history, I posted about the possibility repeatedly in the trade thread. It's not like it was a shocking occurrence out of nowhere.

 

I have no problem with people that believe the playoff appearance was worth the trade. However I grow weary of people constantly dismissing the simple truth that CC Sabathia was not the only way to the playoffs, and the Brewers made the playoffs by 1 game with him. The whole "teams that win make rental player deals" argument is so far off the mark.... teams that can afford to be significant players in FA make rental player deals. The Brewers are not on an even competitive field... it's just the way the system works.

 

I would have less of a problem with it if people weren't already talking about making another acquisition this trade deadline... with what? Cain and Green are hurt, Escobar and Gamel aren't going anywhere, Salome is hitting like garbage, and why would they move Lucroy before a decision is made about Salome? Green, Gindl, and 1 of Salome/Lucroy are likely expendable in the future. What pitching prospect should we part with? We only have 1 that's on anyone's radar... I'd be fine with Anundsen (since he's been high profile of late)but he's not going to get it done.

 

There's a large percentage of the fan base that's way too concerned with what happens today or tomorrow in my opinion. Hall, Hardy, Fielder, Cameron, and Weeks will all be FAs in the next couple of years, if we trade away their replacements, then what?

[jeffy]

There's a large percentage of the fan base that's way too concerned with what happens today or tomorrow in my opinion.

 

It seems to me that there's a significant percentage of the brewerfan.net base that's overly concerned with 3 years from now to the point that, were the Brewers to follow all their ideas, we'd never worry about today and tomorrow and would perhaps never win, because going for it now might reduce the chance to contend 3 years from now by 1%.

[Thurston Fluff]

Going back tot he autograph thing I just don't think any minor league player should ever pass up a request to sign something. If it's a fan they have a duty to the team to help the stadium draw fans. If it's for chairty it helps the team ingratiate itself to the community.

Minor league baseball is all about the fan experience and part of that experience is getting closer to the players than you can at the big league level. It helps the local team draw more fans when they have a connection with players who will only be there a year or so. If it's a good player many times less. The draw is the intimate atmosphere and the accessibility to the players. They have a responsibility to the team and the city they are currently playing in to make it economically viable. The two best ways to do that is to play well and be personable on a one to one basis.

[Tbadder]

I will say that short-term thinking results in short term advantages. If I'm a big club I'd be predisposed to thinking this way. But if I was Milwaukee, no way. I think The Crew07 makes a good point--our minor league system while interesting doesn't really have much other than Gamel and Escobar--and both of these players have plenty of warts. When I'm honest with myself I see clearest, and if I ask myself who on the Brewers team really interests me and can be realistically obtained--well the cupboard is almost bare, not much here, and I'd move on to another team. Certainly if I was the Padres or the Indians I'd look elsewhere. Losing LaPorta is going to hurt more than not, but everyone here knew that.

[TheCrew07]

Just to be clear I have no problem moving LaPorta and Brantley for pitching and never did, my issue was with the choice of a rental player.

 

I don't think the cupboard is bare, I really like Escobar, Gamel, Green, Lucroy, and Cain... I've been a Salome bandwagoneer (see my continual rants about Baseball America on the minor league forum) forever, I'm just not sure what to make of him. Lawrie is going to be very good and I really like Gindl and then there's toolsy guys like Brewer and Dykstra that may have an impact as well, not to mention there's always a sleeper in there someplace. Pitching wise we're thin and Jeffress hasn't done much to set aside my fears, but the kids in A ball are mostly pitching very well, so there's hope on the horizon, it's just a couple of years away from being MLB ready.

 

When people whine about a true leadoff hitter I'll point to Brantley just to remind them that we had one in the system and moved him for pitching, there's no having it both ways. We have to give value to get value, no one is going to trade us Grienke for scraps... it's not realistic. When Melvin made the move for Sabathia it meant that there was not going to be another deal for young pitcher like Santana utilizing the farm system, we just didn't have the ammunition left to get another player with prospects, especially with the recent rash of injuries. We can target some near MLB ready players by moving a MLB player, but I'm in the minority that believes that idea has any merit at all.

 

The main point I was trying to make is that we missed our window to sign our younger studs to team friendly deals like Braun's... where as the Rays have been the exact opposite, they've locked up everyone to team friendly long term deals. Since our players are walking in the near future, which is part of being a small market, to remain competitive we must have pieces in place to replace them. If we dump all our depth for rental players while we're in the first crop's window there's nothing left in 2012 and we're back to 2003 all over again while we wait on the draft picks to mature. If the team can move a MLB player that we're going to lose anyway for some quality top of the rotation talent that seems like the best case scenario to me. This team can remain competitive and I honestly think it would be even better in 2011 than it was in 2008 with a little pitching help. We may not have anyone who will hit 50 hrs, but we'd have as solid a 1-8 as we've had in a long time, maybe ever.

[Tbadder]

I was probably overstating an earlier you made Crew--sorry. But I do agree that we have to think differently because of our market position.

[Ennder]

When people whine about a true leadoff hitter I'll point to Brantley just to remind them that we had one in the system and moved him for pitching,

 

Assuming teams still walk him after they realize he has absolutely no power. He has a skillset that really struggles to translate into major league success with way more disappointments than good players.

[Invader3K]

The main point I was trying to make is that we missed our window to sign our younger studs to team friendly deals like Braun's... where as the Rays have been the exact opposite, they've locked up everyone to team friendly long term deals.

I really don't get how you can possibly say that with any certainty. I doubt all our young guys will be walking away when their arby years are done. It's not realistic to expect Braun will be the only young guy the Brewers keep. At least one other guy will be saying "You know what, I like this team and I want to stay." Maybe Hardy, maybe Hart, maybe Weeks. I don't know for sure. Anyway, it's not like even Fielder and Hardy are gone after this year, and in Hardy's case we have a young exciting replacement waiting in the wings. If you're looking three years down the road, I think you'll just drive yourself nuts, all the time. So much can change year to year that if you try to plan that far ahead, you'll probably get burned more often than not in the world of pro sports.

 

Anyway, how does trading LaPorta change anything in regards to signing or not signing the guys we still have?

[TheCrew07]

Hart already turned down a deal, Hardy will turn it around and get a big pay day, and Prince isn't good value for the dollar for a small market team.

 

Why would any player sign a team friendly deal when they are 2 years from FA? Waiting until arbitration to sign a player gets the team nothing more than cost certainty ala Fielder and Howard. Players talk about location, chance to win, and so on but in the end it's all just fluff and they go where they get the most money, and that's not going to be Milwaukee. If we want more than 6 years of a player, we have to approach them before they are making 4 million dollars a year, not after. There's plenty of evidence around the league if you're looking for when to offer a long-term deal with team friendly dollars... I already put Shield's contract up in another thread... it's all there if you go to COTs.

 

You might not be looking that far ahead, but Melvin sure has to and I prefer to have a longer term view of the club as well. I want sustained competitiveness, not a 2 or 3 year run where we sell out for 1 or 2 chances at the post season and reload again. The finances have to work and the talent has to fall together a certain way, I sure hope they have long term and aren't trying to build the franchise on a year by year basis. It's not all that hard to say X and Y are FA in 2010, who in the system could replace them? It's about as simple as it gets actually, I hardly drive myself crazy.

 

The difference between me and many other people on this site is that I don't have to win now, I'm fine taking a shot here and there, but objectively if last year was our best chance then I should turn in my fan card. It's funny that people around here bash Wood, Prior, Harden, and Bradley but don't see it in our own players. Sheets was no different to a Cub or Cards fan than Wood was to us, they talked about him the exact same way on their forums as we do Carpenter and Wood on ours. Sheets was never going to be healthy enough to lead this team to the promised land, he's a very good pitcher, but he's not someone you can build a rotation around if you're a GM, but he's a great second option if you can him to the post season healthy.

 

The system didn't produce enough pitching to go along with Hardy, Fielder, Hall, etc but we have capable replacements waiting in the wings and solid top of the rotation depth on the way in the low minors. We just need to bridge the gap with another top of the rotation starter, get Yo through a full season, and have Parra find himself and we'll be in very good shape in the short term and the long-term.

[JJHardy7]

Hart already turned down a deal, Hardy will turn it around and get a big pay day, and Prince isn't good value for the dollar for a small market team.

 

So all three might command more money than the team wants to pay? It's clear offers have been extended (at least IIRC to Hart and Fielder). I also think Hardy has received an extension. The problem is that these guys wouldn't sign Braun like deals/nor were they/are they the slam dunk Braun was given his play in the bigs and the short time it took him to become a very good player. I think the real point here is that the Brewers get value for guys they wouldn't eventually extend. Now that could be draft picks or it could be trading them. Not every player will sign a Braun like deal. I'm interested in seeing what Hart does. He was terrible at the end of last year...I'm not sold that he's past that.

[Schlitz001]

The Indians have sent LaPorta back to AAA and recalled OF Trevor Crowe.

 

LaPorta had an OBP of .286 and a SLG of .286 in 42 ABs. LINK