Indians call up Matt LaPorta

[JoeHova]

I do think it's funny that there are some here that now do not like the trade. The 'playoffs' was a dream for this team. Since we didn't win the world series we suck. That's not a fan base I'd ever want to play for.

 

Luckily as Brewer fans we don't ever have to worry about the team signing a good free agent, so whether someone wants to play here or not is irrelevant, they all have no choice either because they are draftees (Braun, Prince, etc.), guys who were traded for (CC, Lee, CV, etc.), or guys who no one else wanted (Turnbow, Podsednik, Branyan, etc.).

 

Also, it's misleading to say that "there are some here that now do not like the trade". There were plenty of people who were not in love with the deal from the beginning. Not only because they thought LaPorta or Brantley would be stars but because they thought that a limited budget team like the Brewers should not trade their top prospect for half a season of one player, when the potential savings of having a good player locked up for 6 years at below market rates could be so important to the makeup of the team. I personally thought that the Brewers gave up a bit too much, but it wasn't a franchise-crippling move, imo.

[Ennder]

We didn't know that Cain had been available till after the fact

 

We would have missed the playoffs if it had been Cain and his 4 ERA(what we could expect out of him in miller park most likely) wouldn't be a huge upgrade this year though it would be an upgrade.

 

I just don't think we can assume there were long term players available.

 

As for the players we gave up, I don't expect Brantley to be much of a major league player. Guys with negative power don't get walked a lot in the majors so I just don't see his OBP staying high. His upside to me is maybe Ryan Theriot style numbers which I'd take but aren't great.

 

LaPorta is more of a wild card because if he can get his defense improved enough that he can at least play 1B his value goes up but if he falls into a pure DH mode then he wasn't ever going to be incredibly valuable to us.

[Invader3K]

"JoeHova wrote: There were plenty of people who were not in love with the deal from the beginning."

 

There were a few...but if you look back when it happened, the vast majority were in favor of the trade, and I think far and away the vast majority of Brewers fans (beyond this forum) think it was a tremendous move for the franchise. Also most of the national press and commentators have said they thought it was the right thing to do, during and after the season. No, you can't run your team based on that (before you jump to that point), but you can't pretend that there was a significant minority against the trade. It was probably only a few posters on this board, and maybe a vocal minority elsewhere.

 

Throwing out other possible trade scenarios well after the fact is also just delving into revisionist fantasy GM stuff which is kind of irrelevant at this point. For all we know it could have taken much more to get Cain than the package that got CC, and again, anything less than CC's performance and we would have missed the playoffs yet again.

[jeffy]

I think far and away the vast majority of Brewers fans (beyond this forum) think it was a tremendous move for the franchise. Also most of the national press and commentators have said they thought it was the right thing to do, during and after the season.

 

This is because most are more interested in winning at the major league level. My impression is some on this forum care more about the minor league prospects than what actually happens on the field with the major league team. It's as if they would be happy to be perpetual losers as long as the team is made up only of players that they have followed through the minor league system. It is great that this team has managed to fill about 1/2 of the major league roster from within, but that does not mean there is anything wrong with filling a hole via trade or "renting" a player to make a run at the playoffs.

 

If they are in a position to potentially make the playoffs again this year, I would hope they would do the same sort of thing again and give up prospects to increase their chances of winning where it counts, when they have a shot at doing so.

[JJHardy7]

Luckily as Brewer fans we don't ever have to worry about the team signing a good free agent, so whether someone wants to play here or not is irrelevant, they all have no choice either because they are draftees (Braun, Prince, etc.), guys who were traded for (CC, Lee, CV, etc.), or guys who no one else wanted (Turnbow, Podsednik, Branyan, etc.).

 

Cameron?

[Invader3K]

Also Jeff Suppan. I know that opens a whole 'nother can of worms that really doesn't need to be rehashed in this thread, but at the time he was considered one of the top free agent pitchers available.

 

Cameron had his own issues that probably diminished his value somewhat when he was available (mainly the fact he was going to be suspended for the first month of the season).

 

Also I would say Trevor Hoffman was a good free agent who no doubt some other teams inquired about.

[crewcrazy]

I'll agree with Invader that Cameron was likely available mainly because of the possible PED concerns. He was still demanding something like 4/40 in the early days of free agency which scared a lot of people off. IIRC, it came down to the Padres and Brewers, and the Pads had already burned most of their bridges with Cameron, so he decided to sign at a reduced rate. Something similar happened with Hoffman, with San Diego making it a messy divorce. Part of me wonders if the Brewers could've gotten Hoffman if they weren't so good to Cameron last year.

 

Milwaukee used to be a place where no free agent would ever consider signing, unless they were desperate to stay in the big leagues and it was a last resort. Now, as word gets out about how well the front office treats its players and how the clubhouse is a great atmosphere, Milwaukee is starting to become a possibility for some. Not a likely destination, but at least a possibility.

 

Edit: To stay on topic, as far as LaPorta goes, part of me hopes he'll become a stud so it enhances the reputation of the Brewers' farm system. Part of me hopes he flops so we don't have to spend the next 20 years arguing if the trade was worth it if the Brewers don't make the playoffs again in that span (please, God, don't let it be that long). Let's just hope the Brewers make it back this year, and LaPorta becomes an above-average player, and call it even. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[jeffy]

I'd think that never having to deal with rain or cold at home (but still playing on grass) would help the Brewers with signings, too.

 

How about if LaPorta is a stud, but the Brewers make the playoffs, say, 10 (or even 7) times in the next 20 years...

[Nottso]

One also has to wonder if some small part of CC wishes he had accepted the Brewers' offer and stayed here. I know there's no way a guy can turn down an additional 60 million dollars, but he just owned this ballpark. Could that dominance have possibly continued? Does he ever wonder about it, even just a little bit?

[Ennder]

In 2007 we signed a SP coming off of an NLCS MVP(unfortunately~). In 2008 we signed the best or second best FA CF on the market. In 2009 we signed the second best closer on the market.

 

Not sure I buy the idea that no real FAs will sign for the Brewers.

[JenksFan5]

The only thing that I would like to add is the fact that you cannot possibly say at the time the Brewers made the deal for Sabathia, they had no chance of winning the World Series. I know Sheets did not have a great track record for injuries, but at that point, he was healthy and pitching very well. The combination of Sabathia and Sheets made the Brewers a formidable matchup for any team in the playoffs. Obviously, Sheets did not stay healthy and the Brewers limped into the playoffs, but that did not make the season any less exciting in the last week. As others have stated, you can't score with the prom queen if you haven't been invited to the dance and anything could have happened in the playoffs.

Trading LaPorta and change did not mortgage the future by any means as we still have a pretty decent farm system and our major league talent is still very competitive. You use prospects to build your team for the long-term and as trading blocks to push a good team over the top. The Brewers built the winner through the farm system and then went for it when they thought they had a good chance of winning it all. That is exactly how I want the Brewers to compete in the future. Would you trade Gamel or Escobar and others for Roy Halladay if the Brewers are right there at the all-star break again this year? If it meant increasing the Brewers odds of making the playoffs again this year with the chance to win the World Series, I would do it again in a heartbeat.

[mletto157]

I guess it's hard for me to fathom the idea that it wasn't a good idea for the franchise. Baseball is a business, and in this business, like any other, you have to make money. That one playoff appearance has gone a very long way in rejuvinating a once forgotten team with the city of Milwaukee. Yeah, we on this site generally talk badly about the "casual fan", but as far as the business is concerned... the average fan is just as good as any of us if it means they pay for tickets and merchandise. I mean, look at all the people that bought CC jerseys. Or how many people were at each game he pitched. That deal made this franchise a lot of money - last year, as well as this year and in the future. To a lot of fans, baseball is finally back in Milwaukee because of a trade like that. I guess to me, that's what baseball is all about. I think if the front office could take last year back and do it over again - they'd make exactly the same decision.

[JoeHova]

In 2007 we signed a SP coming off of an NLCS MVP(unfortunately~). In 2008 we signed the best or second best FA CF on the market. In 2009 we signed the second best closer on the market.

 

Not sure I buy the idea that no real FAs will sign for the Brewers.

 

The fact that Cameron and Hoffman both signed one year deals shows that they were not in great demand. For example, the Padres were rumored to have offered Hoffman around half of what he ended up signing for with Milwaukee. Suppan is terrible, I doubt anybody else wanted him for anything close to the money that the Brewers offered. However, even if I grant that other teams did want him and that he was one of the top free agents (which I don't believe), 1 relatively big signing in 20 years doesn't really refute my point that top free agents aren't how this team is built or will ever be built.

[Invader3K]

Well, I do agree with the last part of what you said, JoeHova. However, I don't think anyone here was really suggested the Brewers would be or should be built with lots of FA signings. We all know that's not realistic for the Brewers. However, I do think occasional free agent signings will happen from here on. At least it seems like we'll have a chance to sign some of our own guys, too, like the Braun extension, and things like that.

[TheCrew07]

I don't mind signing FAs, I think the Brewers can get reasonable value in deals for position players, pitchers on the hand, not so much. The top of the scale the Brewers can afford are aged pitchers on the decline that averagish so I think FA pitching is terrible market for the Brewers. There's much better value in position players on the open market, for example Cameron has been worth every penny thus far in his 2 seasons and he's much less likely to suffer a significant injury than a pitcher is.

[tyguy20204]

LaPorta hit his first major league home run in tonight's game against Toronto, putting the Indians up, at least for the time being.

[rm121978]

LaPorta hit his first major league home run in tonight's game against Toronto, putting the Indians up, at least for the time being.

 

cue the "see! it was an awful trade" posts from the rubes...

[dlk9s]

LaPorta hit his first major league home run in tonight's game against Toronto, putting the Indians up, at least for the time being.

Nitpick: it tied the game and it was also his first major league hit. Pretty sweet for Matt.

[kramnoj]

However, even if I grant that other teams did want him and that he was one of the top free agents (which I don't believe), 1 relatively big signing in 20 years doesn't really refute my point that top free agents aren't how this team is built or will ever be built.

 

People are refuting what you wrote, which is that the Brewers wouldn't be able to get "good" free agents, not that they could get the top free agents.

 

My recollection is that the Mets planned on bidding for Suppan, but the Brewers inked him before the Mets made an offer. And it was the Mets that pretty much started the paying of mediocre FA SP a high salary with Kris Benson.

[obobo55]

The only thing that I would like to add is the fact that you cannot possibly say at the time the Brewers made the deal for Sabathia, they had no chance of winning the World Series. I know Sheets did not have a great track record for injuries, but at that point, he was healthy and pitching very well. The combination of Sabathia and Sheets made the Brewers a formidable matchup for any team in the playoffs. Obviously, Sheets did not stay healthy and the Brewers limped into the playoffs, but that did not make the season any less exciting in the last week. As others have stated, you can't score with the prom queen if you haven't been invited to the dance and anything could have happened in the playoffs.

 

Trading LaPorta and change did not mortgage the future by any means as we still have a pretty decent farm system and our major league talent is still very competitive. You use prospects to build your team for the long-term and as trading blocks to push a good team over the top. The Brewers built the winner through the farm system and then went for it when they thought they had a good chance of winning it all. That is exactly how I want the Brewers to compete in the future. Would you trade Gamel or Escobar and others for Roy Halladay if the Brewers are right there at the all-star break again this year? If it meant increasing the Brewers odds of making the playoffs again this year with the chance to win the World Series, I would do it again in a heartbeat.

This is exactly the point I was going to make. At the time of the trade, Sheets was phenomenal and the offense was dominating (prior to Hart's dropoff). When they made the deal, I was of the opinion that they had just made themselves THE team to beat. Now we know how the season ended and some may argue that they expected a Sheets injury, but in the moment it was a no-brainer IMO.

 

As it turned out, I would tend to agree that perhaps we gave up too much for a single playoff appearance, but again I agree that there was not a position for LaPorta to play. Perhaps he should have been dealt for a longer-term solution in retrospect, but that is some real Monday-morning GM work if you ask me.

 

Given that we still have some top prospects and we will still receive the draft picks I don't get how anyone can really argue with the deal.

[phxMILWfan]

Yeah I fully expect the "see it was a terrible trade" posts to come in with LaPorta hitting a home run today. Congratulations to Matt for his first big league hit and home run. I'm trying to ignore the fact that it sounds like the guy is a jerk.

[JoeHova]

cue the "see! it was an awful trade" posts from the rubes...

 

Why? Why do people insist on saying things like this? What is your problem? Does the fact that other people don't have the exact same perspective as you threaten your worldview that much?

[Invader3K]

Now we know how the season ended and some may argue that they expected a Sheets injury, but in the moment it was a no-brainer IMO.

I don't remember that many people predicting a Sheets injuryy. If anything, his performance during the majority of the season was making people defend him more vehemently than ever. "He's not injury prone!" etc. Heck, even after it came out during this spring that he would be having surgery and not signing with anyone right away, a small minority on this board were saying Melvin should still try to sign him to a multi-year deal...

[Ennder]

He probably wouldn't have been injured if they had just limited his pitch counts more. I could have told you he was going to struggle to pitch 200 innings after so many partial seasons in a row. That is not how you bring a pitcher back from injury. I blame Yost more than I blame Sheets but who cares, it is over and done with.

[Tbadder]

This is really a classic case of both sides being correct. Of course in the short-run the trade was awesome. Breaking the playoff-less streak was an important part of changing the culture and attracting future free aents and rewarding suffering fans. But it is equally important to note that the Brewers have made it harder on themselves and that the return was definitely not enough. It is perfectly rational reaction to say "see-I-told-you-so" because it is true and legitimate that many of us would like Matt in a Brewer uniform right now.