Indians call up Matt LaPorta

[mkm13]

What if we had won the World Series? Would it have been worth it then?

 

Last summer was the greatest 2 and a half months of my life. Once your in the playoffs, anything can happen, I think the Cards and Marlins have shown that.

 

Doug had the guts to go for it, and I love him for it. I'm sick and tired of being the same old Brewers who just try and win by hoarding prospects. At some point the law of diminishing returns comes into play. We needed CC and we got him. It didn't get us to our ultimate goal but we took a chance.

If we won the world series it probably would have been worth it. But you can't really look at it like that. Doug should be doing what is best for the team not only now, but long term. Based on probability, it is more likely we win a world series if we either keep the LaPorta package or trade them for someone that will be around for awhile.

 

The mindset some people have on here is driving me crazy. THIS IS NOT THE BREWERS FROM THE 1990's! I don't care that we didn't make the playoffs in a long time. Those teams didn't have 2 of the top 15 hitters in baseball on the team. Those teams didn't have the overall depth at each position that we currently do now. We have a chance to be competitive for awhile. Stop bringing up all the bad brewers teams because they do not matter how this team in the future can perform and act like we had to go for it last year just because we "had a chance".

[kramnoj]

KegStand81, you bring up good points. Things that LaPorta probably thought of as he got settled in his new destination and was having a cold one with his new teammates. But how did he feel when there were rumors that he would be traded that went on for days, and when he finally found out? Did someone from the Brewers take time to talk with him, prepare him for the things he would need to do once he was traded?

 

Does anyone know what happens when a player gets traded in the minors? Does one of the teams pick up his moving expenses, and help him make arrangements to pack up, clean his apartment, move his stuff, find a new apartment, move in, etc? If I found out that I was traded and had to report to a new place in a timely manner, all those things would be going through my mind. I think it's understandable that LaPorta might have been slightly distracted as he was preparing to go to a new place.

[Diskono]

I'd guess that they would have let him know ahead of time, that they were working on a trade with Cleveland. Brantley's agent seemed to be well aware that one of his clients was going to be traded.

[rm121978]

The mindset some people have on here is driving me crazy. THIS IS NOT THE BREWERS FROM THE 1990's! I don't care that we didn't make the playoffs in a long time. Those teams didn't have 2 of the top 15 hitters in baseball on the team. Those teams didn't have the overall depth at each position that we currently do now. We have a chance to be competitive for awhile. Stop bringing up all the bad brewers teams because they do not matter how this team in the future can perform and act like we had to go for it last year just because we "had a chance".

This market IS the same size as it was in the 1990's, and therefore can't afford to spend what the bigger market teams can. Therefore while we'll be competitive, competitive will mean around .500, usually around 6th best in the NL. It's not fun to think about, but it's the truth. If Laporta wasn't traded last year, he'd be traded this year or next year or 2011 if we're in contention to make the playoffs late in the season. It's how small market teams operate. Trade your prospects when you have a shot, trade your big $ stars for prospects when you don't have a shot. We can't afford to keep and pay everyone. Nothing has changed from the 1990's, and you are delusional if you think otherwise.

[theavrock]

If we won the world series it probably would have been worth it. But you can't really look at it like that. Doug should be doing what is best for the team not only now, but long term. Based on probability, it is more likely we win a world series if we either keep the LaPorta package or trade them for someone that will be around for awhile.

 

The mindset some people have on here is driving me crazy. THIS IS NOT THE BREWERS FROM THE 1990's! I don't care that we didn't make the playoffs in a long time. Those teams didn't have 2 of the top 15 hitters in baseball on the team. Those teams didn't have the overall depth at each position that we currently do now. We have a chance to be competitive for awhile. Stop bringing up all the bad brewers teams because they do not matter how this team in the future can perform and act like we had to go for it last year just because we "had a chance".

 

 

In all of your posts about this topic you have consistently failed to acknowledge that what you are affirming as the action the DM should have taken is impossible. Please show me an example of a midseason trade deadline deal that involved quality young pitchers with 3 years before free agency going to playoff contending teams. It does not happen. Thats the nature of the beast. Was it a perfect deal? No, if it were we could have traded Seth McClung and Tony Gwynn Jr. for him but thats not going to happen.

And of course this isn't the 1990's Brewers. The simple fact that we were A. in a position to have any business acquiring a pitcher of CC's caliber and B. have enough prospects to get the deal done without having to give up any current MLB players shows how we are light years beyond that point.

And your point about bad logic fails on so many levels. First of all the deal has to be looked at in the correct context. It was not the offseason, it was the middle of the season. Teams arent trading away quality young pitchers still in the early part of arbitration. Secondly like you said we have a lot of young talent in the farm system and we didn't give up the farm by any means. Escobar and Gamel are top 20 prospects and we have plenty of other depth in the wings. In case you missed the first 25 games of the season, we are competitive right now. We traded away LaPorta, a great prospect who has the chance to turn into a great player, but thats far from a sure thing and we are still competitive with plenty of minor league depth. Thats DM using good logic.

[Diskono]

Large market teams trade their prospects for stars when they have a shot too, thats one of the reason the Yankees never have any prospects.

[JJHardy7]

If he were traded to an organization where his progress was blocked, it would be a different story, but playing for an AL franchise actually helps him because of the designated hitter.

 

This is a great point. Where would LaPorta play in Milwaukee? He would not be playing this year or next. The Brewers win in this deal. I've seen the trade beaten to death here and I expect that. The fact is he's not starting over Braun, Hart, or Fielder this year or next year. I guess you could move Hart to CF next year, but I'd prefer to keep Cam.

 

IIRC the huge debate internally was LaPorta or Gamel in the deal. The Indians wanted Gamel, but the Brewers wouldn't give him up. Gamel does have some defensive questions, but he would be called up long before LaPorta if he figures it out.

 

I'd take the picks personally. LaPorta didn't have a spot in Milwaukee.

[mkm13]

In all of your posts about this topic you have consistently failed to acknowledge that what you are affirming as the action the DM should have taken is impossible. Please show me an example of a midseason trade deadline deal that involved quality young pitchers with 3 years before free agency going to playoff contending teams. It does not happen. Thats the nature of the beast. Was it a perfect deal? No, if it were we could have traded Seth McClung and Tony Gwynn Jr. for him but thats not going to happen.

Where did I mention anything about the trade having to happen mid season? Completely confused by that comment. It is no secret Prince has to go soon. JJ possibly as well. If we packaged LaPorta with Prince you are telling me we couldn't get 1 or 2 very good young pitchers? When dealing with long term success...the goal is to have as much value or "pieces" as possible. We gave up some of that by renting a player. We can still be successful, but we don't have as many "chips" to play with.

 

I am done commenting on this because this could go on forever. I guess it is all about perception. I always think long term and make things sustainable over time. Obviously some like to think short term.

[bucks2281]

Therefore while we'll be competitive, competitive will mean around .500, usually around 6th best in the NL

 

A good deal has changed since the 1990s. New owner, more $$, more fans. I don't think that makes me delusional, etc. And, the Brewers finished with the third best record in the NL in 2008, the 6th best in baseball. I don't know how you can say that the Brewers not spending big $$ will eternally send them into that ~.500 area The Rays won 97 games last season. There is a difference between a limited budget and poor spending decisions.

[kramnoj]

It is no secret Prince has to go soon.

 

This is stated far too definitively. The Brewers can afford to keep Prince through 2011 if they want to.

 

I always think long term and make things sustainable over time. Obviously some like to think short term.

 

The Brewers have to do both at the same time. The trade not only benefitted the 2008 Brewers, it benefitted the 2009 Brewers in terms of early tickets sold. Maybe it helped them re-negotiate a deal with FSN. Who knows how much fandom it engendered or strengthened for the short, mid, and long term.

 

Strictly speaking of player value, the Brewers should have not traded for CC and then they should have traded Sheets and Cameron and Torres away before July 31st. They would definitely have more talent right now if they had done that. But the Brewers franchise would be worse off.

 

Edited for clarity.

[Postseason2006]

What if we had won the World Series?

Problem is, this did not happen? You could play what if I won a Million Dollars yesterday too, but it doesn't make the trade look any better tomorrow. So with the argument you just stated we could've threw in Escobar, Gamel, and LuCroy and if we would've won the World Series it would've been worth it?

 

And can people justify CC's greed in taking more money when he's already set for life. The dumbest part was the mere fact he was going to a hitter's part if the guy would've read what they had been speculating about it for months and the mere fact he works for a loser family.

[mkm13]

It is no secret Prince has to go soon.

 

This is stated far too definitively. The Brewers can afford to keep Prince through 2011 if they want to.

Soon as in the next 2 years. What I meant is he is not a long term solution

[AJhawk50]

0-4 with 2 k's while batting 8th in his 1st career start in right field.

[Invader3K]

And for all we know Mat Gamel could be their answer at 1B if they decide to have him switch positions. You keep talking like trading LaPorta and Brantley stripped the Brewers of all their depth. It hasn't come evern close to doing that.

[endaround]

If its one thing the Brewers have shown under Doug Melvin is the ability to develop power bats with questionable defensive prowess. Fielder, Braun, LaPorta, Gamel, Salome. The Brewers turn them out constantly. It only makes sense to take from this strength to fill a weakness. Again you take the chance. The Brewers started out 3-7 this year. They add another 3-7 right after and their season would be over. There are too any variables to account for to pass up an opportunity to get to the playoffs when you have the chance.

[JJHardy7]

If its one thing the Brewers have shown under Doug Melvin is the ability to develop power bats with questionable defensive prowess. Fielder, Braun, LaPorta, Gamel, Salome. The Brewers turn them out constantly.

 

Great point. I would be upset if we gave up a slam dunk 'legit' arm in the deal. Again, LaPorta didn't have a place to play in Milwaukee. I guess I don't see how some fail to see that. I still think Brantley might be the one we regret trading...not LaPorta. You can find corner OFs who hit for power on the free agent market. LaPorta IMO will be an average player and that's not a knock on him. He'll have a long career, but he's not going to be a guy we regret trading if you think about what actually happened. We got two picks for him and Brantley, and we also got a playoff appearance. Brantley could be exactly what the Brewers need next year if Cam leaves.

 

I do think it's funny that there are some here that now do not like the trade. The 'playoffs' was a dream for this team. Since we didn't win the world series we suck. That's not a fan base I'd ever want to play for.

[mkm13]

It only makes sense to take from this strength to fill a weakness.

Exactly. Makes perfect sense and I have agreed with that like 10 times already. Our only disagreement is you prefer to rent a player where I prefer a player who will pitch more than 15 starts.

[Invader3K]

Except that there was no option between a rental player or a player who was going to pitch more than 15 games, while the Brewers were trying to make the playoffs.

[PeaveyFury]

Aren't people the slightest bit interested to see who the Brewers draft with the two high draft picks they got out of the deal as well? Seems impossible to get a complete picture of the deal until we see what that becomes. If they get another LaPorta or Braun, the Brewers come out waaaaay ahead.

[lukevan]

It only makes sense to take from this strength to fill a weakness.

Exactly. Makes perfect sense and I have agreed with that like 10 times already. Our only disagreement is you prefer to rent a player where I prefer a player who will pitch more than 15 starts.

I suppose it's possible we could've traded away two more top prospects with LaPorta and Brantley (Gamel & Green?) to get a more long-term pitcher. But then that would've actually put a dent in our farm system and probably would close our window of competitiveness sooner.

[Ennder]

Exactly. Makes perfect sense and I have agreed with that like 10 times already. Our only disagreement is you prefer to rent a player where I prefer a player who will pitch more than 15 starts

 

But again you are assuming this player was available. I guess we could have gone for Harden instead but given the injury history I don't like the idea of that. No other pitcher was traded during the off season including Peavy who they shopped hardcore. Teams don't trade pitchers with 2+ years of a contract left in the middle of the season very often, especially not front line starters.

 

Nobody would have objected to saying getting Halladay instead of Sabathia and having him for an additional 2 years, but the price to get that probably would have been at least Gamel or Escobar added to the deal and maybe both. Pitching like that is at a huge premium.

[Never Outhustled]

The draft pick argument is very weak especially since the Yankees pick is now a 2nd.

JJ Hardy and Yo Gallardo are very offended by this statement. (Both were 2nd round picks)

[JJHardy7]

So we don't like the playoffs? This isn't a knock on this site, but some Brewers fans I know feel it wasn't it worth it because we didn't win it all. You have to get in it to win it.

 

I'd also like to point out the Brewers have rarely traded a prospect that we regret. I've heard the Brewers feel the same way about this trade...

[PrimeTime955]

What if we had won the World Series?

Problem is, this did not happen? You could play what if I won a Million Dollars yesterday too, but it doesn't make the trade look any better tomorrow. So with the argument you just stated we could've threw in Escobar, Gamel, and LuCroy and if we would've won the World Series it would've been worth it?

 

And can people justify CC's greed in taking more money when he's already set for life. The dumbest part was the mere fact he was going to a hitter's part if the guy would've read what they had been speculating about it for months and the mere fact he works for a loser family.

Read the quote I was referring too. His quote was talking about what if we didn't make the playoffs. So I rebuttled and said, what if we had won the world series? It goes both ways.

[TheCrew07]

How do we know a longer term solution wasn't available? Because it wasn't reported in the press? The rentals are obvious, everyone knows who they are. We didn't know that Cain had been available till after the fact... what team besides the Giants would want to let it leak out that they were shopping a guy to see what they could get? It only happens with the cancer type players in most cases and ends up hurting their trade value. It's just not good diplomacy to name drop in the press, it's bad news for the player and the team. What player wants to be told they are expendable?