8 IP, 0 ER, Game Winning HR

[Ennder]

why crap on us because the Mets collapsed and the Crew rode Sabathia home? The Brewers were a game away from sitting home and how would the Sabathia deal look then? Your continual narrow view of that trade makes me want to put my head through a wall.

 

Sure, but to be fair if Sheets elbow lasts another month and our offense doesn't go so darn cold in September this team easily could have gone to the world series. Sabathia, Sheets, Gallardo, Bush is a rotation that in my mind defeats the Phillies if they are all healthy and the offense is clicking. We had a very legit shot at winning the world series last year because of the trade.

[Never Outhustled]

Well we can't quantify actually making the playoffs, its easy to see the impact it has had on our payroll. If we never traded for CC, we wouldn't have the payroll we have.

[TheCrew07]

There no doubt the playoff appearance likely had an impact on ticket sales this season and possibly the new FSN deal, which will help with the payroll, that's very logical and I have no problem with that.

 

However Sheets getting injured was one of the exact scenarios I argued when people were making the claim that Sabathia guaranteed a playoff spot. I just don't see how it's fair to say "what if" with the offense, defense, Sheets, etc and ignore the other side... what if Sabathia would have been merely been very good instead of putting together one of the all time great stretches in MLB history? It goes both ways... what if the team had acquired a longer term solution and the offense didn't collapse? Would the outcome have been different? We don't know, and we never will, so while it's fair to say the team wouldn't have made the playoffs post Sabathia deal without him, it's not fair to claim acquiring him was the only way we could have made the playoffs. The dominoes likely wouldn't have fallen the exact same way if a different move was made, though I do believe Sheets would have gotten hurt regardless.

 

Another aside but it really stinks that we lost 2 draft picks to that injury... (sigh).

[Invader3K]

Well, Sheets getting injured yet again was something out of the team's control. The Yankees signing both Sabathia and Teixeira was also out of the Brewers' control.

 

I do agree that it will sting a bit if LaPorta becomes a stud everyday player for Cleveland. But I still think the benefits of finally making the playoffs again far outweigh the downsides for this franchise.

 

I do agree there's not much point in rehashing potential playoff scenarios at this point...maybe we could have gotten lucky and gotten into the NLCS somehow, but I can't see how the Brewers would have gotten any further. I still think the "shine" of making the playoffs in '08 was so huge for this franchise, from a business and prestige standpoint. It showed everyone that this team is a legit force in the NL, and not just an also ran feeder team for the big boys.

[Tbadder]

I think it was the right deal then and the wrong deal now. But I also think that most of us knew that going into this trade. It's a trade scenario with a long tradition in major league baseball. For me personally it isn't worth it, but I wholly understand why it had to happen and respect that.

 

Back to the thread and Yovanni Gallardo. I love hitting pitchers. This game doesn't happen in the American League, and it's another example of how the DH homogenizes baseball. This is a constant battle between myself and my best baseball friend. He loves the 9 to 8 Texas Rangers scenario, and I love the 1 to 0 nail biter. For myself, when scoring becomes cheap I can stop watching until the last inning or two, or the last half of the 4th quarter if it's the NBA. But the 1-0 or 2-1 result demands constancy and a low grade tension that builds to crescendo. I understand his need for a run-fix, his LSD-joy of players wheeling around the bases, but for me--give me the artistry of great pitching coupled with the do or die defense that keeps the game scoreless, and then the pitcher homer to win it all--pure heaven!

 

I'd rather watch Yo or Zambrano or Micah hit than some fat, old slob who would've been outta baseball years before, 50 to 100 years ago.

[mkm13]

I still think some don't understand what I am saying. I am fine with them being traded. I just don't like that we traded big pieces for something so short term. I am all about being competitive over the long term. Not just a 1 and done deal. We have some good major leaguers locked up long term and had a lot of great hitting prospects to keep the offense good for the next 5+ years. What this team is missing is pitching prospects that can keep us highly competitive. Given that, it was a good idea to trade a couple of our hitting prospects...but it would have been more benefitial for the brewers long term if they traded for someone that would have been here 3+ years.

[Roderick]

I still think some don't understand what I am saying. I am fine with them being traded. I just don't like that we traded big pieces for something so short term.

Look at it this way, now that the Brewers got to the playoffs and have that off our back, maybe mgmt can take a more long-term focus as you want for future trades.

 

But for me, making the playoffs, even in a one and done was worth the price even if LaPorta is an allstar for a decade. There are a bunch of teams every year that have the talent to get to the playoffs, but one thing or another derails their season - so I don't assume that even if we hold onto our best prospects that will ever mean that the Brewers will be in the playoffs in that timespan. So when you are in a good position like the Brewers were last year with only the Cubs in the Central and not many teams showing they would be wildcard contenders, then a lopsided trade may have to be made.

[mls4]

I am fine with them being traded. I just don't like that we traded big pieces for something so short term.

I agree that it was a lot to pay for a short-term contract. But there was no chance of trading for a player of Sabathia's level with 2-3 years of contract left. If there was, the price would have been even more significantly higher.

[mkm13]

I was not saying we would have the opportunity at another player at CC's level. Obviously we couldn't get a player like him that was under contract for awhile. You can still get a pretty good pitcher for the package we gave up.

I guess I don't see why anything should change with management just because we made the playoffs. People are making it a bigger deal than it really is.

[Invader3K]

I think you're making it less of a deal than it was. If we had traded for a player of lesser caliber than Sabathia, we probably would have missed the playoffs. Consequently, we'd still have the monkey on our backs of over 25 years without a post season appearance. That would suck, in my opinion. It was one of the longest playoff droughts in professional sports, which was pathetic. Yes, that wasn't all Melvin and Attanasio's fault, but they were stuck with the perception problem that in the minds many people, the Brewers were an also ran franchise.

 

It was time to prove the franchise was legit, and win something. They did. All of the excitement and revenue generated for the team was huge, and is going to help them going forward. I guess I don't see how a Brewers fan who's been following the team for more than a couple years can say making the playoffs last year wasn't a big deal.

 

I certainly wouldn't trade the excitement of watching that final game of the season, seeing Braun's huge homer, and then getting to attend my first baseball playoff game ever in my life (I'm almost 30, FWIW) and seeing Dave Bush beat the Phillies for anything.

[giffted1]

I wouldn't trade last season for anything.

My thoughts exactly. I was so happy I cried the day the Brewers clinched, and words cannot describe the atmosphere of that first playoff game at Miller Park. Anything less than what CC did wouldn't have been enough to get the Brewers to the playoffs, and there was no one better than CC over that stretch. LaPorta could go on to be a perennial All-Star and I'll still be perfectly fine with the trade.

[DuWayne Steurer]

A team like the Brewers is always "building for the future", but last year *was* the future. Small market teams have to recognize when that window of opportunity opens up for them, even if only briefly.

 

At some point, you have to take a shot. Last year was as good as any.

 

With hindsight it's easy to bemoan the fact that we were pushed out in the first round, but even if all else is equal, you have a 1 in 4 chance of making the series, 1 in 8 of winning it.

 

If you're not going to take that shot last year, then when?

[Ennder]

My only regret with the entire trade was that the Yankees signed Teix so we didn't get a good draft pick. That draft pick in my opinion is worth as much as Brantley or maybe even more.

[theavrock]

I still think some don't understand what I am saying. I am fine with them being traded. I just don't like that we traded big pieces for something so short term. I am all about being competitive over the long term. Not just a 1 and done deal. We have some good major leaguers locked up long term and had a lot of great hitting prospects to keep the offense good for the next 5+ years. What this team is missing is pitching prospects that can keep us highly competitive. Given that, it was a good idea to trade a couple of our hitting prospects...but it would have been more benefitial for the brewers long term if they traded for someone that would have been here 3+ years.

 

I get what you're saying, but thats like trying Matt Cain from the Giants in mid season. A trade like that is not going to happen unless you are offering current major league players, plus prospects. The price would be ridiculous. The package we offered doesn't get us Matt Cain even in the off season, much less during a midseason playoff push. The reason players like CC are available is because they are rentals and teams (Cleveland) realize there are others (Milwaukee) willing to pay for that half season in order to improve their run towards the playoffs. Even if the Brewers hadn't made the playoffs it was the right gamble at the time.

[Invader3K]

A team like the Brewers is always "building for the future", but last year *was* the future. Small market teams have to recognize when that window of opportunity opens up for them, even if only briefly.

Exactly. The point of sports is supposed to be trying to win something, at least every once in a while. I'd rather have taken that shot then go "Oh well, there's always next year, and we have more prospects that are a year or two away..."

[monty57]

To re-hijack this thread back to Gallardo. In a move that will "look to the future," how much will it take to lock him up long term? He should be targeted to get the next Braun-style deal, so that he can be our ace for the next seven or so seasons. Wasn't Braun something like 7 years, $42MM? Would that get it done for Gallardo?

[mkm13]

Exactly. The point of sports is supposed to be trying to win something, at least every once in a while. I'd rather have taken that shot then go "Oh well, there's always next year, and we have more prospects that are a year or two away..."

Correct. The point of sports is supposed to be to win something. We didn't win anything last year. Not the division, not a playoff series. Nothing. Winning a playoff spot? I am happy about the fact we made the playoffs..but the ultimate goal is the world series. Why did we have to go for it all last year? What made last years team special that this years team wouldn't have had? Our roster and minor leagues were set up where we had a good chance to be competitive for awhile. Getting rid of those players for no long term value makes that more difficult. Based on probability, if you throw a good team on the field 5 or 6 years in a row, you are much more likely to "win something" as opposed to looking short term and concentrating on 1 year. My only problem with it is getting a player that will help for only 0.5 years. You are riding a slippery slope when a small market team gets rid of their top prospects for such short term value.

[Invader3K]

You're ignoring the fact that we're still well set to contend for this season and possibly one or two more yet. We also have plenty of other prospects. We only traded one really key prospect and a couple more middling ones for Sabathia. It's not like Melvin cleared out the farm to get him.

 

Also, we did win "something." We won the NL Wild Card. More than anything the Brewers have won in the last 25 years prior.

[mkm13]

I am not ignoring it. If you read, I specifically said trading them will make it "more difficult". I never said they wouldn't. I don't care what happened 20 years ago. All those brewer teams did not have the offensive talent this team has and has built up in the minors. The one thing we are lacking is pitching and pitching prospects. We still do have a few good hitting prospects, but we will also need them to replace the offensive production of Fielder and a few others who will be gone in a year or 2. Laporta was the one player who had good value but we really did not need. We gave that valuable piece away for 0.5 years. Again, that is my only problem with it.

 

This team was set up to be very competitive for 5+ years (and still is for the most part), because of that...I feel like we were to desperate last year and gave away to much for such short term value.