A-rod reported to have used steroids with yankees and in High School

[TooLiveBrew]

So this is far from a reliable author. Certainly someone who needs to have more than unnamed sources we are supposed to just trust on her say.

 

I agree with Buc that this is important to keep in mind. Roberts doesn't have a track record of making certain her info is correct before she shills it.

[kramnoj]

The whole point is you seemed to insinuate he could somehow get hold of steroids without anyone knowing (which pretty much means he had to make them BTW).

 

You would be better off if you actually read what I wrote, rather than looking for insinuations. I wrote "It's understandable that he might be concerned about privacy and not want to reach out and put himself in danger of getting exposed."

 

Alex has somebody who can do stuff for him that he trusts.

 

If he was taking them to improve his performance and managed to find some it is hard to believe he somehow couldn't get the ancillary information to get the most out of using them. Perhaps from the same source as he got the actual product from.

 

Why is that hard to believe? People wouldn't pay for personal trainers if they could just read a page of how to work out and get the maximum benefit. To get the most out of a steroid, a player would need to work with someone that knew the athletes body, knew what the steroid was supposed to do, and implement a program that aimed to give maximum performance to the athlete.

 

Steroids are a controlled substance for a reason. They should be administered by someone who understands the doses properly, can prescribe a regimen, and will follow the patient to make sure that everything is working correctly.

 

Where did I ever say he got them from a stranger?

 

You didn't. You didn't understand what I wrote, and so I clarified what I wrote. I wrote that Alex wanted to limit his exposure. You read that and thought I wrote that Alex didn't want "anybody" to know that he had steroids.

[Thurston Fluff]

Why is that hard to believe? People wouldn't pay for personal trainers if they could just read a page of how to work out and get the maximum benefit. To get the most out of a steroid, a player would need to work with someone that knew the athletes body, knew what the steroid was supposed to do, and implement a program that aimed to give maximum performance to the athlete.

 

I guess I just don't get your logic here. If he had steroids and he used them while working out the way he always did he would see some benefit from said usage. It's not some sort of secret formula that has no effect at all unless used only is certain dosages according to body fat % and weight with only a certain diet. If he didn't get maximum benefit because he used the wrong dosage or something that doesn't automatically mean he wouldn't get any benefit at all. If he did get steroids from someone he used them. If he used them he got some sort of benefit from them. If he got some sort of benefit it really is irrelevant that he didn't get maximum benefit from it does it?

 

 

You didn't. You didn't understand what I wrote, and so I clarified what I wrote. I wrote that Alex wanted to limit his exposure. You read that and thought I wrote that Alex didn't want "anybody" to know that he had steroids.

 

Even if he wanted to limit his exposure he would still want to get some sort of benefit from using them wouldn't he? I mean what's the point of taking the risk at all if he didn't plan on getting some sort of benefit from them? Which leads me back to the idea of him getting enough information on how to properly use them to get some sort of benefit out of them. Granted he would want to limit his exposure but to limit it so much that he essentially took them for no benefit at all defies common sense. If he was willing to risk exposure enough to get them then it seems logical he would risk further exposure to make sure he knew how to use them to get some sort of benefit from them. Other wise it makes no sense at all to even try to obtain them.

[Invader3K]

Heard Roberts talking about all this on the radio today (it was either on Rome or Patrick, forget which). Anyway, she seemed pretty sure of herself, and didn't strike me as just someone trying to stir the pot, for whatever that's worth.

[kramnoj]

If he used them he got some sort of benefit from them. If he got some sort of benefit it really is irrelevant that he didn't get maximum benefit from it does it?

 

I think you need to review the points that have been addressed. As conversations continue, they can stray from what was originally discussed. You wrote "A-Rod supposedly took steroids but didn't boost his performance accordingly? Just doesn't add up. " That is what I orginally addressed. Alex didn't have the same professional level of training and a lab behind him as Bonds did. Therefore it's not surprising that Alex's performance didn't increase "accordingly". I never actually said that Alex didn't benefit from steroids.

[Invader3K]

Come on guys...these kinds of semantics arguments hurt my head after a while. Knock it off already.

[kramnoj]

Knock it off already? I'm not sure that's adding to the conversation. This isn't a quibble over semantics. These are real differences that are being discussed.

[Thurston Fluff]

If A-Rod had only used steroids in Texas then he was a major league player when he used them. Just like Bonds. If he only used them in Texas and he had all the professional training professional players get and he had no discernible difference between the time he admitted to using them in Texas and the time he claimed to not have used them in Seattle or while in NY, both of which are during his major league tenure, then it seems to me he is the only guy who didn't seem to get any effect from them. So your whole argument about his training doesn't hold up if he was only using them in Texas. If true that he only used in Texas his time in Texas should have stood out more than it does.

[kramnoj]

So your whole argument about his training doesn't hold up if he was only using them in Texas.

 

Are you able to look at every player that tested positive for steroids and tell exactly when they used and when they didn't? Prince Fielder's HR totals the last 3 years are 28, 50, and 34. Did he use steroids when he hit 50?

 

Alex had an OPS+ of 160 as a 20 year old, and then it wasn't above 136 until he went to Texas. Did he use steroids as a 20 year old and then didn't use them for 3 years? I dont' see how you can look at Alex's stats and be confident that you know when he was using and when he wasn't.

[Thurston Fluff]

Fair point but if someone is a known cheater and only admitted to what he was caught cheating at should we automatically give him the benefit of a doubt? At the point a person is caught and admits then I am way more skeptical of that person. I think he did cheat more than just the year in Texas. Why do I think that? Because he had as much reason to cheat prior to that than he did when he got caught. Why would he not cheat before his big payday only to cheat at a time when he knew he would be tested? His story of wanting to validate the contract is weak at best. If he never used them prior to that why did he somehow now feel the need to cheat to perform at the same level he did all along? I just don't buy what he is selling.

So maybe he didn't cheat but maybe he did. What we do know is he did cheat at a time when he knew he would be tested and he is trying to tell us he didn't at a time he knew he wouldn't be tested. That is rather odd behavior for someone who was supposedly so good without them. It is easier for me to believe he knew he had to continue to use to justify his contract than he started to use when he never needed them to do that well ever before. That type of person doesn't get the benefit of a doubt in my mind. The only doubt I have is the person who wrote the book has no better credibility.

[BrewCrewWS2008]

Okay here is my 2 cents on this topic:

 

1) I'll take anything said by selena roberts (the insane, crazy stalker) with a grain of salt. She offers no evidence at all! I could write a book like hers saying LeBron James was given HGH growing up and supply as much nonsense as her crazy @ss. She clearly has a vendetta out for A-Rod.

 

2) Putting on 25 lbs in a year for a high school athlete is not hard, definatley from your soph to junior year. Your body matures more, you probably are working out harder and taking different proteins or creatine(hope not though because creatine is aweful for you). I know plenty of players that I played with do that. They weren't on steroids.

 

3) If A-Rod has taken steroids regularly he is an idiot and doesn't know how to take them. Look at the guy! In no way, shape, or form does he look like a juicer. If I was on roids and thats as big as I could get, I'd want a refund. His weight has stayed the same for most of his career and numbers have been about the same. He is consistant and not that injury prone (which steroids usually causes more injuries)

 

4) Steroids don't give you the skills that A-Rod has, he is a natural. I could take steroids all I want but is not going to make me one of the best players of all time. Steroids don't make you hit for high average, see the ball better, or anything. It may give you some more homeruns but thats it. Gabe Kapler was on roids big time when he was coming up and in his early years did it make him as good as a-rod? no not at all. A-Rod on steroids or not would be the exact same player.

 

5) Last their is no doubt in my mind he is on performance enhancing drugs..... but really who isn't? Braun is, Hardy is, Hart is just not stuff that is banned yet. I bet they go to GNC once a month load up on all their supplements which do what? Help you perform better and get faster results. Players can get suspened for taking the wrong diet pill if their is one ingrediant that is banned. (look at McAllister, Kevin Wlliams, Grady Jackson in the NFL this past season). You look at the products that were sold at GNC 5 years, all them were fine to take now their are tons that of the same products that are banned.

 

Really this whole thing is annoying as hell, Selana Roberts is trash and worthless. If A-Rod did he did, oh well it didn't make him the player he is today. The guy can play baseball, plain and simple, steroids or not. I still respect him as a player. I wish Roberts would just f*** off and stop making me have to listen to this crap on espn and everything else. Why doesn't she get off his @ss and maybe report the other 103 players on the list except for just pick on one

[Thurston Fluff]

If A-Rod has taken steroids regularly he is an idiot and doesn't know how to take them. Look at the guy! In no way, shape, or form does he look like a juicer. If I was on roids and thats as big as I could get, I'd want a refund. His weight has stayed the same for most of his career and numbers have been about the same. He is consistant and not that injury prone (which steroids usually causes more injuries)

 

Then he should get a refund because he admits he did use them in Texas. He has failed a drug test. Oh and isn't he out wiht an injury now? Steroids may cause more injuries but i think they start to show up as the body gets older.

 

Steroids don't give you the skills that A-Rod has, he is a natural.

 

If the argument was steroids help people become great athletes then this argument makes sense. Since the argument is whether steroids help individuals achieve better results than their natural talents would allow it is irrelevant whether or not they help the talentless do something they naturally can't. Steroids most certainly do help those with natural talent get better results.

 

I bet they go to GNC once a month load up on all their supplements which do what?

 

I bet you're wrong. I bet most players with an intelligence level beyond that of a fifth grader knows all too well GNC products are not tested by the FDA and there is no telling what is actually in those products. There are plenty of people today that avoid anything at all simply because they want to know what they are putting in their body. Athletes who regualrly get tested are even more aware of such things.

 

 

If A-Rod did he did, oh well it didn't make him the player he is today.

 

And Barry Bonds would have hit 70hr without them even though he only ever hit 40ish before using steroids. If they didn't work people wouldn't use them.

[TooLiveBrew]

She clearly has a vendetta out for A-Rod.

 

I really, really disagree. I think Roberts just has a vendetta against not making money & not having attention.

 

The crazy thing to me in the debate/discussion of Roberts's credibility, the only thing she's done is proven that she isn't credible. So... where is the debate? Just like in the Duke Lacrosse case, she's picked an automatically villainized 'antagonist', and just basically piled on. Wow, groundbreaking stuff there, Selena -- you've villainized accused rapists & an accused (& admitted) steroid user! Your research & power of persuasion are amazing!

 

Where there is no integrity, there can be no trust.

[MJLiverock]

So after all the attention Selena Robert's book about A-Rod drew it has been a fizzle with the fans. Even with all the hype and A-Rod's supposed larger than life stature it has sold a whopping 16,000 copies including 11,000 during the first week. (The first printing was 150,000 copies). The book ranks 2,904th on Amazon.com according to the article and a bookstore in midtown Manhattan says they have only sold 2 copies and the Grand Cental Station book store says they sold 27 but none for 2 weeks.

 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Aviv80WpIREW94SM4b_vyq45nYcB?slug=ap-books-a-rod&prov=ap&type=lgns

[RyDogg66]

probably a case of too much exposure. What was reported in snippets by the media was enough to satisfy our need for information. All the juicy details are out, why buy the book?

[burniebrewer]

How about the Red Sox fans chanting "You use steroids" during his AB last night.

 

I could hear the crowd chanting something, but the announcer made a point to tell the viewer exactly what was being said.

[TooLiveBrew]

So after all the attention Selena Robert's book about A-Rod drew it has been a fizzle with the fans. Even with all the hype and A-Rod's supposed larger than life stature it has sold a whopping 16,000 copies including 11,000 during the first week. (The first printing was 150,000 copies). The book ranks 2,904th on Amazon.com according to the article and a bookstore in midtown Manhattan says they have only sold 2 copies and the Grand Cental Station book store says they sold 27 but none for 2 weeks.

 

Serves her right. It's just good to see that the consumer public isn't interested in someone 'reporting' on allegations & anonymous sources. Perhaps if Roberts hadn't shattered her own credibility by running as sensationalistic as possible with the phony Duke lacrosse allegations, people would find her claims in this book more interesting & relevant.

[Invader3K]

Or maybe people are just tired of hearing about it in general? A baseball player having used steroids isn't really that shocking anymore. We've become pretty much desensitized to the issue.