A-rod reported to have used steroids with yankees and in High School

[DuWayne Steurer]

With all the allegations about, heck, just about everyone nowadays, the only thing that might pique my interest is when someone actually gets caught doing something right now. I'm not interested in what someone's high school teammates said they did. Just not.

 

The pitch tipping thing, that doesn't even get to me that much. It's going to be awfully tough to "prove". I suppose our commish could use the "for the good of the game" power he has granted himself and punish A-Rod for something somebodie's roomate's cousin's uncle told a reporter's girlfriend who sat next to Jose Canseco on the bus, but it's probably not worth the effort.

 

Baseball just keeps killing itself by bringing up this crap from the past.

 

Why can't we just acknowledge steroids happened, absolutely punish the guys that get caught, and move on?

[Invader3K]

Is anyone concerned with the close relationship between Braun and A-Rod that I've heard of before?

 

No, not really, to be honest.

[crewcrazy]

Rodriguez put on 25 pounds of muscle between his sophomore and junior years. Former high school teammates told Roberts that A-Rod was using steroids back then and his coach knew it...

I am not saying Arod didn't use roids but whenever I see claims of muscle growth automatically linked to steroids I tend to scoff at it a bit. I know most people don't like to work out but I dont' think they understand how unremarkable that muscle gain is, especially for a top athlete.

 

I went from a 150 pound football player as a junior to 175 pounds by my senior year without gaining an inch of height, 20 to 25 pounds of muscle isn't impossble, especially in high school or early 20's. I worked out 6 days a week for at most 2 hours at a time usually more like 90 minutes. I even got fat and out of shape during college and again at age 24 packed on 20+ pounds of muscle in less than a year all without steroids or a personal trainer.

 

While it's true that not all muscle growth are the results of steroids, it seems reasonable to assume so in this case. The report says that as a sophomore in high school, he went from barely being able to bench press 100 pounds to benching over 300 in just 6 months. I'm not that in the know when it comes to weightlifting, but it seems extremely unlikely that a 16-year old could improve that much in that timeframe -- he tripled his max.

[Invader3K]

So, will Rodriguez face any real consequences if this stuff is true? Could a suspension be looming?

 

To me, the worse accusation is the thing about tipping pitches. Sure, it may "not have mattered" in a blowout situation...but tell that to the guy on the mound, who might be a reliever trying to hold on to his job in the majors.

[logan82]

The report says that as a sophomore in high school, he went from barely being able to bench press 100 pounds to benching over 300 in just 6 months. I'm not that in the know when it comes to weightlifting, but it seems extremely unlikely that a 16-year old could improve that much in that timeframe -- he tripled his max.

 

Depends on how much he weighs and whether he had ever lifted before. Adding 200 lbs to your bench press over 6 months is quite a bit though. Lets say he weighed 150 and went to 175 over that time. Benching 100 lbs for a 150 lb guy is pretty bad, but it would be real easy to improve to close to 200 lbs with regular weight lifting and no supplements in only a couple months if you had never lifted before.

 

At the time A-Rod was in high school there were many over the counter supplements that would now be considered illegal steroids at GNC. Could be similar to the Turnbow situation where he used something that wasn't illegal at the time, but is now considered a steroid.

[endaround]

ARod was a top and I mean top prospect. Those types tend to find college conditioning coaches suddenly "available" down at the local U.

[DougJones43]

So, has the commissioner's office ever responded in any way to the pitch-tipping allegation? To me, that's worse than steroids, and is up there with what Pete Rose did. As another poster pointed out, it is a blatant slap in the face to the integrity of the game.

 

It looks like Rodriguez is continuing to go about getting ready to play with no sign of an investigation or discipline. Is MLB going to do anything, or just pretend it didn't happen and hope it goes away??

[strawbossisevil]

Is it really the league´s job to follow up on any rumor that they hear about any given player? These accusations seem to be more of the rumor variety rather than the solid proof with witnesses variety.

[DougJones43]

Is it really the league´s job to follow up on any rumor that they hear about any given player? These accusations seem to be more of the rumor variety rather than the solid proof with witnesses variety.

 

I imagine that they started investigating Pete Rose's betting after being tipped off by rumors. Maybe I'm in the minority on this, but I think tipping pitches to an opponent is a pretty egregious act -- definitely worthy of follow-up.

[endaround]

As soon as they get that Denny McClain case of tipping his pitches to Mickey Mantle taken care of...

[strawbossisevil]

It is a horrible thing and tarnishes the game, but without any proof outside of a rumor, what else can be done? This is completely different than Rose´s betting as there was actual evidence to the fact that he did so.

 

I don´t think it is the job of the commissioner to investigate every rumor that he hears about a player, but when hard evidence becomes available, that is where he has to step in. If we start having players come forward in claiming that they tipped pitches to Arod (which I doubt will happen, as it damns them as well), then yes, Bud better do something. I think more potent than the commissioner is the reaction of the public against such activities, because the public doesn´t need hard evidence to get on the case of a player.

[Thurston Fluff]

Is it really the league´s job to follow up on any rumor that they hear about any given player? These accusations seem to be more of the rumor variety rather than the solid proof with witnesses variety.

 

Yes it is. Isn't that why they set up, or are setting up, an branch within the commissioner's office to investigate steroid use?

 

 

Why is that so hard to believe? There have been plenty of baseball players who have tested positive for steroid use without us being able to see where the performance difference is.

 

If you are a crappy fringe player who uses the difference isn't going to be as huge as if you are an already talented player. steroids can help you hit the ball further or throw it faster but it isn't going to help the hand eye coordination needed. Maybe someone goes from 5 HR to 15 and gets his Slugging up 25 points to 300 to 325. Is that really going to be noticed like Bonds was noticed? A great player like A-rod was when he claimed to have been clean certainly had the other skills needed to make a major boost to his abilities with supplements. That he seems to have got no boost at all from it seems hard to believe.

[strawbossisevil]

There is a big difference between an unsubstantiated rumor, and something that can actually legitimately be looked into. Much of this Arod stuff, especially the pitch tipping, falls in the unsubstantiated rumor category.

 

It is the job of the league to look into things that can actually be legitimately proven, not to chase after baseless rumors.

[PeaveyFury]

Much of this Arod stuff, especially the pitch tipping, falls in the unsubstantiated rumor category.

 

While unsubstantiated, I'd think it'd be fairly possible to find someone that can confirm it.

[strawbossisevil]

How, exactly? If it is a gentleman´s deal between two players, the other player has nothing to gain by sharing his deal with Bud. By telling Bud, he would be painting himself as a cheater as well, and would likely be banned from the league (ala Pete Rose). I can´t imagine what it would take a player to accept that type of negative press and loss of money.

 

On top of that, even if someone were to say that there was a deal, it becomes "he said/she said" and would lack the definitive proof needed to do anything. This is essentially what has happened in Brian Mackmanera (sp?)/ Roger Clemons situation. Without actual indisputable proof, the league is not going to be able to do anything about it.

 

IF Arod has done it, and it´s possible he has, he is scum for doing so. But right now it is nothing but unsubstantiated rumor, and I don´t think it is worth Bud´s time to chase after any given rumor that pops up, unless there is a good chance of coming up with irrefutable evidence that said player was cheating. Otherwise it just becomes a public witchhunt, which is not good for anyone.

[PeaveyFury]

By telling Bud, he would be painting himself as a cheater as well, and would likely be banned from the league (ala Pete Rose). I can´t imagine what it would take a player to accept that type of negative press and loss of money.

 

Supposedly this is stuff that happened years ago, right? I think it's quite possible that someone already out of the league that has nothing to lose could come forward. Not saying that it's likely or anything worth pursuing, but I certainly don't think it's unprovable by any stretch.

[strawbossisevil]

What would be the benefit for said player (that´s out of the league) to come forward? No player wants to be labeled a cheater and have the backlash that accompanies that. Bud has no leverage on bringing these people (if they even exist) out to confession. And even if one were to come out and confess such a thing, what hard proof would there be to the fact aside from his word vs. Arod´s?

 

I don´t think the league can judge against an individual solely by taking a certain person at his word, and that´s the problem with this. Even in the unlikely case that someone were to come forward there would almost certainly be no hard and fast evidence aside from that person´s word vs. Arod´s. It would make Arod´s public appeal go down further (if that is possible), but if that´s the best the league can do, making the nation hate him even more than they already do, why waste your time on it in the first place?

 

I don´t want to come across here as a huge Arod fan, I´m not. But I don´t think calling Bud to arms is the best way of dealing with this. IF this was a problem, undoubtedly it won´t be going forward lest he risk getting caught. The same goes for steroids. He once was on them, he isn´t anymore.

[kramnoj]

I would also assume a player who says he was doing steroids as a professional ballplayer because he felt he needed to perform to the level of his contract was in fact doing all the things he needed to in order to get maximum effect from his steroid use.

 

Why would you assume that? How does a player do this? Does he go to the local Golds Gym and say "Hi, I'm Alex Rodriguez and I want to know how to use these steroids to make me better"? Alex was using a controlled substance. It's understandable that he might be concerned about privacy and not want to reach out and put himself in danger of getting exposed.

 

Bonds trusted his friend, a trust that hasn't yet been broken despite jail time. Maybe Alex didn't happen to have a childhood friend that happened to be a fitness expert tied to a chemical lab that he trusted so completely.

[PeaveyFury]

What would be the benefit for said player (that´s out of the league) to come forward?

 

About the same as Jose Canseco's was when he really 'broke' the story on the steroids stuff?

 

I don´t think the league can judge against an individual solely by taking a certain person at his word, and that´s the problem with this. Even in the unlikely case that someone were to come forward there would almost certainly be no hard and fast evidence aside from that person´s word vs. Arod´s.

 

Well, there's always the possibility that a second person could come forward and confirm the story as well, then it stops being one person's word against another.

 

Or, AROD could actually come out and tell the 'truth', just like about his steroids use...

[mothershipconnection]

The report says that as a sophomore in high school, he went from barely being able to bench press 100 pounds to benching over 300 in just 6 months. I'm not that in the know when it comes to weightlifting, but it seems extremely unlikely that a 16-year old could improve that much in that timeframe -- he tripled his max.

 

That's a big jump. I could bench 135 in 7th grade and it took until the end of my Junior year to bench 300. I may not be nearly as genetically lucky as ARod, but I worked out a lot and tend to put on muscle easier than most people.

 

The closest you could come to a jump like that is if you have a ton of muscle but just aren't used to bench pressing, then you could make a big jump, but not when you're skinny.

[MJLiverock]

Arod may well have been able to bench a little more than 100lbs, I mean that is pretty low for any kind of athlete. In Junior High I could do more than that as mothership said. The jump to 300 isn't a smoking gun in my eyes because we don't know where his true bench started and where it really ended, it could all just be rounded or hyperbole. And as I mentioned earlier even with a huge jump in bench it doesn't mean much because I personally have achieved similar results without steroids, I just don't think most people understand what is possible with 6 months to a year of dedicated hard work in a gym. I know I could bench at least 300 in high school because my training partner and I tried it once, and I would bet that before I started lifting I could barely do 150 if at all.

 

I watched the interview with Roberts and Costas last night on MLB and she is pretty sure of her sources and confident in her reporting, even when confronted with named players who disagree with her unnamed sources about the pitch tipping in particular.

[endaround]

I would feel much better about it being true if it wasn't being doen for a book. Book editors are much more lax about fact checking then are news outlets and book publishers have an incentive to throw out anything that might goose sales

[Thurston Fluff]

Why would you assume that? How does a player do this? Does he go to the local Golds Gym and say "Hi, I'm Alex Rodriguez and I want to know how to use these steroids to make me better"? Alex was using a controlled substance. It's understandable that he might be concerned about privacy and not want to reach out and put himself in danger of getting exposed.

 

You don't really think A-Rod went street corner to street corner in disguise until he found someone selling them, bought them, locked himself in his basement and just experimented with them on his own with out any help what so ever do you? Or are you suggesting he made them in his bedroom lab on his own? Those seem to be the only two ways he could have done so without anyone knowing he had them. It seems to me far more likely he had help learning how to use them than he didn't have anyone at all. There was someone who at least sold him the steroids. So yes he did have to go somewhere and ask about them or have someone suggest them to him. The local gym is one possibility, personal trainers another, coaches yet another. I would imagine the same person who sold it to him would at least tell him how to use them. At the very least tell him how much to use. After that all he had to do was his normal routine. Steroid users don't have their own secret training routine known only to steroid users. They use the same training programs but get better results.

[kramnoj]

Or are you suggesting he made them in his bedroom lab on his own?

 

Please show me anywhere that I made such a reference. That is just an insulting sentence with no basis and no value.

 

Those seem to be the only two ways he could have done so without anyone knowing he had them.

 

Actually, the other way that he could get them without a stranger knowing that he had them is that he had his cousin buy them. He presumably has undeniable trust in his cousin. Unfortunately, his cousin doesn't happen to be an atheltic trainer.

[Thurston Fluff]

Please show me anywhere that I made such a reference. That is just an insulting sentence with no basis and no value.

 

Lighten up it was obviously a poor attempt at humor. I'm not sure why this comment from you is so much better a comment or adds anything more to the conversation than my comment did.

Does he go to the local Golds Gym and say "Hi, I'm Alex Rodriguez and I want to know how to use these steroids to make me better"?

 

The whole point is you seemed to insinuate he could somehow get hold of steroids without anyone knowing (which pretty much means he had to make them BTW). I think that it is far from likely. He had to know someone, cousin perhaps, who got them for him. Obviously the person who got them for A-Rod knew he was getting them for A-rod. If he was taking them to improve his performance and managed to find some it is hard to believe he somehow couldn't get the ancillary information to get the most out of using them. Perhaps from the same source as he got the actual product from.

Actually, the other way that he could get them without a stranger knowing that he had them is that he had his cousin buy them. He presumably has undeniable trust in his cousin. Unfortunately, his cousin doesn't happen to be an atheltic trainer.

 

Where did I ever say he got them from a stranger? If his cousin can get them it seems likely his cousin would also get some info on how to use them correctly. You don't need an athletic trainer to use steroids.

 

 

I would feel much better about it being true if it wasn't being doen for a book. Book editors are much more lax about fact checking then are news outlets and book publishers have an incentive to throw out anything that might goose sales

 

I just heard on the radio that the person who wrote the book also had a lot of bad info on the Duke Lacrosse rape incident a few years ago as well. Something she has yet to admit or retract. So this is far from a reliable author. Certainly someone who needs to have more than unnamed sources we are supposed to just trust on her say.