Weeks weakness---The side-arm sling

[topper09er]

Um, no Rickie made a horrible, lazy feed by being flashing and not using proper fundamentals. I dont care if he makes some great plays too, but when he makes mistakes it should not be because of poor fundamentals. If you can expect a high school player to learn how to do something the right way then Rickie Weeks should be expected to do it the right way also. Escobar had to catch the ball in a way that forced him to go over the top of the base.

[TooLiveBrew]

So are you going to just post on every mistake he makes that you disapprove of? It's really not proof of anything aside from that it annoys you.

[topper09er]

Only when he makes mistakes because he spits in the face of using proper fundamentals because he is ahtletic and a professional so good fundamentals dont apply to him because he is such a raw talent. And it is shocking to me that he is allowed to continue this and no one seems to care. If I saw my high school 2nd baseman field a ball and flip it directly from his glove without a stiff wrist sidearmed which resulted in a poor feed to the SS I would show him the correct way to make the play and expect him to do that in the future. I guess this does not occur with Willie Randolph.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm sure Weeks is doing all this just to mock fundamentals, and he doesn't actually care or work at it

[topper09er]

He either decides he doesnt need to use proper fundamentals because he is so athletic he is above them, similar to how Brett Favre does not always step into his throws, or he is unaware of what the proper fundamentals are for feeding the SS on a DP try. What other options are there?

[TooLiveBrew]

The option that he knows what he should do, but forgets to do it. You know, like how humans can make mistakes sometimes.

[topper09er]

And That wrote:

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He was safe, it was a lollipop throw by Weeks that cost the Brewers.

[Gobias Industries]

It's either a slow, methodical turn for Rickie, or a wild throw to first, as we witnessed many times before Randolph came on board.

[steve267268]

He either decides he doesnt need to use proper fundamentals because he is so athletic he is above them, similar to how Brett Favre does not always step into his throws, or he is unaware of what the proper fundamentals are for feeding the SS on a DP try. What other options are there?

I'm no expert, but I would also assume that there is the option that the fundamental way of doing things just doesn't feel comfortable to him. There are all sorts of unorthodox batting stances and what not, and they all have to do with what makes the player feel most comfortable.

[topper09er]

steve267268[/b]]I'm no expert, but I would also assume that there is the option that the fundamental way of doing things just doesn't feel comfortable to him. There are all sorts of unorthodox batting stances and what not, and they all have to do with what makes the player feel most comfortable.

Everyone looks different when the pitcher is winding up but there is only 1 correct way to hit when you are swinging/making contact with the ball, and all good hitters look the same at the point of contact. The same is true in golf, people look different bring the club to the ball but all great shots look the same at the point of contact.

I also dont care if Weeks doesnt use proper footwork/positioning/throwing technique if he gets the job done. Like when people get all bent out of shape when some player in the majors doesnt use 2 hands to catch the ball, at that level the proper fundamentals of using 2 hands is not required because everyone has enough raw talent to just catch the ball in their glove. However, if a player habitually is making mistakes due to not using proper fundamentals it should be corrected and it bothers me that no one on the coaching staff seems to care about this issue.

 

 

[HiAndTight]

He either decides he doesnt need to use proper fundamentals because he is so athletic he is above them, similar to how Brett Favre does not always step into his throws, or he is unaware of what the proper fundamentals are for feeding the SS on a DP try. What other options are there?

Perhaps topper it's possible that what YOU consider fundamental isn't what others do.

 

For example the very topic of this thread. Throwing sidearm from the IF is absolutely a fundamentally sound technique, however it's not something you would teach high school kids as it's obviously not that easy.

 

The same can be said for turning two and throwing it off your back leg as you obviously cannot step into it as a 2nd basemen coming across the bag with a runner bearing down.

 

I don't recall the flip you're talking about so I can't comment on whether that one was him making a poor fundamental play on, but I question it based on your over the top bashing of Weeks in previous situations where I believe you were wrong.

[dlk9s]

I didn't think the flip to Escobar was that bad. If I remember correctly, it seemed like one of those "in between" distances where it is hard to determine in a split second which is the best way to deliver the feed. As for the the sidearm sling on the almost double play, obviously it would have been better if he would have made a nice, hard overhand throw, but maybe he felt that the quickest way to get the ball out of his hand (since he knew it was going to be close) was to whip it sidearm. Sometimes things work out, sometimes they don't.

[topper09er]

Perhaps topper it's possible that what YOU consider fundamental isn't what others do.

 

For example the very topic of this thread. Throwing sidearm from the IF is absolutely a fundamentally sound technique, however it's not something you would teach high school kids as it's obviously not that easy.

 

The same can be said for turning two and throwing it off your back leg as you obviously cannot step into it as a 2nd basemen coming across the bag with a runner bearing down.

 

I don't recall the flip you're talking about so I can't comment on whether that one was him making a poor fundamental play on, but I question it based on your over the top bashing of Weeks in previous situations where I believe you were wrong.

You are right anything is possible. However, just because you get the same result 2 different ways does mean they are fundamentally correct. Throwing sidearm puts unneeded stress on your arm and it is not the correct way to maximize the use of the muscles in your body, when you throw sidearm you are not maximize the use of your lower half. However, it is still obviously possible to make a strong accurate throw sidearm. Just like it is possible to catch a baseball with one hand, it does not mean it is the correct way to best do it, as it will likely lead to you dropping a few popups over a long career, but it still gets the job done. Do you recall the play a few years ago when Alsonso Soriano dropped the final out of the game hit by Nate McClouth because he was doing his little jump catch and the pirates went on to win the game? Would you see fit to criticize that?

 

I know how to turn a doubleplay, there are many different ways depending on the feed throw and the runner and the amount of time you have, and when your relay throw lacks the top speed you could have put on it because you just sling it sidearm/underhand instead and it causes the runner to be safe at 1st that is a problem.

 

 

[HiAndTight]

You are right anything is possible. However, just because you get the same result 2 different ways does mean they are fundamentally correct. Throwing sidearm puts unneeded stress on your arm and it is not the correct way to maximize the use of the muscles in your body, when you throw sidearm you are not maximize the use of your lower half. However, it is still obviously possible to make a strong accurate throw sidearm. Just like it is possible to catch a baseball with one hand, it does not mean it is the correct way to best do it, as it will likely lead to you dropping a few popups over a long career, but it still gets the job done. Do you recall the play a few years ago when Alsonso Soriano dropped the final out of the game hit by Nate McClouth because he was doing his little jump catch and the pirates went on to win the game? Would you see fit to criticize that?

 

I know how to turn a doubleplay, there are many different ways depending on the feed throw and the runner and the amount of time you have, and when your relay throw lacks the top speed you could have put on it because you just sling it sidearm/underhand instead and it causes the runner to be safe at 1st that is a problem.

 

 

Topper, there's no much question that at the higher levels, IF'ers throwing sidearm is a fundamentally sound technique. I think you're talking about what you teach your High School kids and we're talking about what professional players do.

 

You'll see almost every single big leaguers drop down sidearm as it's quicker to get rid of the ball.

 

To be honest I'm not sure what the Soriano play had to do with it. You see one big league OF'er do that little hop. You see..as I said, almost every big leaguer(3B, SS, 2B) throw the ball like that.

 

You obviously don't see OF'ers do it because you're right, you're not going to get the most power on the ball. They also don't do a crow hop from 3rd base on a slow roller.

[topper09er]

Topper, there's no much question that at the higher levels, IF'ers throwing sidearm is a fundamentally sound technique.

 

Not when they are not turning double plays because they are not getting enough on their throws.

 

To be honest I'm not sure what the Soriano play had to do with it.

 

I was talking about him not using fundamentals and how it can cost you even if 99% of the time he catches the ball, I was not talking about throwing sidearm with him, sorry for the confusion.

 

You see..as I said, almost every big leaguer(3B, SS, 2B) throw the ball like that.

 

I think you are talking about at least a 3/4 arm slot because certainly NO MLB 3B throw sidearm or many SS. 2B do a lot, but I am not talking a grounder with no one on base, I am talking about a double play turn where Weeks sometimes actaully releases the ball with his palm facing up and this is resulting in players beating the throw at first. This exacct scenario happened on Monday. Not to mention the terrible feed that Escobar completely bailed him out on.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I'd rather have a slow, more accurate throw than a harder throw that ends up in the dugout. Weeks is still progressing and perhaps he will get better at turning the DP with more tutelage from Randolph/Sveum.

[HiAndTight]

Topper, there's no much question that at the higher levels, IF'ers throwing sidearm is a fundamentally sound technique.

 

Not when they are not turning double plays because they are not getting enough on their throws.

 

To be honest I'm not sure what the Soriano play had to do with it.

 

I was talking about him not using fundamentals and how it can cost you even if 99% of the time he catches the ball, I was not talking about throwing sidearm with him, sorry for the confusion.

 

You see..as I said, almost every big leaguer(3B, SS, 2B) throw the ball like that.

 

I think you are talking about at least a 3/4 arm slot because certainly NO MLB 3B throw sidearm or many SS. 2B do a lot, but I am not talking a grounder with no one on base, I am talking about a double play turn where Weeks sometimes actaully releases the ball with his palm facing up and this is resulting in players beating the throw at first. This exacct scenario happened on Monday. Not to mention the terrible feed that Escobar completely bailed him out on.

No, I'm CERTAINLY talking about side arm. Don't you watch Arod play 3rd ever? Of course they're going to throw sidearm when they have to charge a chopper, or a slow roller. Tejada does it quite a bit.

 

Anyway, we're not going to agree. This is something I was taught playing baseball and something you see a lot watching college and professional baseball. I can understand if you coach high school that you're very much against teaching high school kids this.

 

But my point is this. I don't think Rickie's lazy, and I don't think he's gone this long without any "correcting him". I believe what he's doing is correct. I also think he's been playing a whole helluva lot better than you're giving him credit for as you seem to have some pretty harsh critique's of Rickie.

 

So I'll leave it here as I don't see us coming to an agreement.....

 

 

[topper09er]

I am not talking about a slow roller just routine plays. For Rickie that means playing at DP depth, 2 hopper to SS, Weeks is standing at 2B with his left foot on the bag waiting for the feed in a stationary position. Then, when he gets the ball he lollygags it to first and it causes runners to be safe at first. So are you saying you do not care at all that players are beating out DPs not because they are fast but because the 2B sucks at turning them?

 

I dont think hes lazy as much as stubborn, I think he thinks he can get away with his cute little throw and thats why he does it, unfortunetly, he proves time and time again he cant.