Kudos to Macha

[brewtown82]

I thought about calling this the "Reasons Macha is better than Yost" thread, but figured I'd keep it positive. Todays reason: Macha putting in his best reliever with the game on the line in the seventh inning. Yost would have saved him for later when it no longer mattered.

[monty57]

I don't think today's game is a good one to give Macha credit for.

[Buckethead Brigade]

That, and he keeps Coffey in to lay down a bunt, which results in a run. Great call today by Macha

[brewtown82]

I don't think today's game is a good one to give Macha credit for.

 

why? Even if it didn't work, you're better off pitching Coffey there then letting DiFelice give up the game. Ultimately, its the players that get it done, I just think that the strategic shift from defined "roles" for relievers to using the best for the situation is better.

[liveforoctober]

Before we knight him... remember he let Suppan hit in the bottom of the 6th only to pull him after 1 batter in the 7th... which offsets the Coffey move, because it started the mess that required Coffey.

 

Hoffman can't get here soon enough... Coffey has thrown too many innings already as he is our only reliable bullpen guy. Good win today.

[DougJones43]

Before we knight him... remember he let Suppan hit in the bottom of the 6th only to pull him after 1 batter in the 7th... which offsets the Coffey move, because it started the mess that required Coffey.

 

True, however he still deserves credit for rectifying the situation quickly, which is something that hardly happened under a certain former manager who was very stubborn and slow to correct mistakes.

[Ennder]

I'm in the minority but the bullpen doesn't really worry me once Hoffman is back. I trust Hoffman, Coffey, Stetter and Villanueva pretty much. I like DiFelice a lot as well. McClung and Julio worry me but not very many teams have bullpens that I trust top to bottom.

 

Macha bungled the Suppan AB and starting in the 7th inning, I'll give him a little bit of a mulligan since he is new to the NL but he better learn fast~.

[rluzinski]

I realize that Coffey has been great during his short time with the Brewers but I'm not convinced he's anything special, yet. He hasn't exactly had a lot of major league success so far. I love the outcome but leaving Coffey in there didn't really seem like some brilliant strategic move. I think I would have pinch hit for him, even if it was just to attempt a sacrifice. And that move with Suppan was completely boneheaded, IMO.

 

Now, I have suggested in other posts that all managers are bad and it doesn't matter who's manning the team. That really isn't fair. I just haven't been particularly impressed with Macha's moves so far, overall.

[brewtown82]

Why not hit suppan? It's not like our bullpen has proven it can pitch three scoreless very often. Just Coffey.

[hurricanecrush]

I loved the way he used Coffey. I know that I am in the minority but I agreed with bringing Suppan back for the 7th. There seem to be many who hated the Suppan move and loved the Coffey move. The question I have is what is the difference between the two? Can someone explain the difference between the two scenarios and why one was ripped and the other applauded?

[Ennder]

I didn't applaud the Coffey move but leaving in your pitcher to bunt a runner over is a bit different than letting your pitcher lead off when he is nearing his pitch limit and will likely be taken out the next inning the first time someone gets on base. I'm dubious about bringing Suppan out to start the 7th in the first place but when you add in the fact he was leading off the inning at bat it becomes a 100% complete no brainer to replace him.

[liveforoctober]

Everything Ennder said... plus Suppan was going to have to face Reyes + for the 4th time this next time through ... which generally isn't favorable.

 

Coffey was only at 19 pitches after his first 1 2/3, which is only an inning really.

[rluzinski]

Why not hit suppan? It's not like our bullpen has proven it can pitch three scoreless very often. Just Coffey.

 

Struggling #5 pitcher at almost 100 pitches, leading off the next inning. That's not a compelling reason? And how is Suppan after 100 pitches better than a fresh, mediocre reliever, anyway?

[hurricanecrush]

But with a team that has been struggling on the mound and, more specifically, with the bullpen; isn't keeping a starter in that is pitching well and letting him hit for himself a better bet than a pinch hitter and turning it over to this bullpen right now*? If we were tied or losing, I would agree; but with the lead, it seems like we had a better chance to keep them from scoring with the status quo than the slight added probability of adding a run with the PH and hoping to hold them for three innings with the pen.

 

*I'm not saying that this bullpen can't be successful long term but it hasn't been pitching well of late.

[Never Outhustled]

Before we knight him... remember he let Suppan hit in the bottom of the 6th only to pull him after 1 batter in the 7th... which offsets the Coffey move, because it started the mess that required Coffey.

Ya, that drove me nuts too. That was a common Yost strategy, and it consistently backfired on him too. Suppan had just given up a flyball thats a homer in most parks to end the 6th. I say get Suppan out of the game with his confidence is intact, as he has clearly been struggling as much mentally as he was physically.

 

I'm also somewhat annoyed that RJ Swindle hasn't been in a game yet. I understand that Macha would maybe like to bring him in for the 1st time in a game that isn't a 1 run game, but if he goes a few more games without pitching, he'll be rusty. I guess I'll be fine with it as long as he pitches next game.

 

The thing I do like about Macha as that he's shown in his past that his teams recover after slow starts, and have consistently finished strong. I'll predict that is on tap for this season too.

[Fatter than Joey]

I love the outcome but leaving Coffey in there didn't really seem like some brilliant strategic move. I think I would have pinch hit for him, even if it was just to attempt a sacrifice.

 

Agreed -- I don't think there was a whole lot of brilliance in it -- I think the only available arms were Villy, Julio, McClung and Swindle... I am guessing Swindle is viewed as a LOOGY, Villy pitched 2IP yesterday, and Julio is Julio, McClung is McClung.

 

I do think Yost would have let DiFelice and Stetter pitch a lot longer, and I seriously doubt he would have let Coffey pitch the 9th regardless if he came up to bat or not. Yost seemed to be a lot more hard-wired by inning breaks than Macha may be.

 

Julio hasn't pitched in awhile -- my guess is Macha has 0 faith in him, and he is going to jettisoned once Hoffman comes back. McClung could have pitched today as well -- my guess is that both those guys (who have BB'd someone in each of their appearances) are running out of leash.

 

Did you know Julio's middle name is "Dandys"? Weird.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

I'm very glad that Macha seems to be a bit less married to assigned innings for relievers than Yost was. I'm also glad that he's willing to use the guy he seems to think is the best reliever in the highest leverage spot, even if he is nominally the interim closer. It will be interesting to see whether those trends continue when Hoffman is back. I confess I sorta doubt they will. I guess I don't really want to see Hoffman try to go 2 2/3 IP anyway.

 

However, I'll second Russ's suggestion that Coffey isn't anything special, so even though it worked today, I'm not sure its the right move tomorrow or next Tuesday. Coffey has over 200 MLB IP suggesting that he's a GB pitcher who gives up way too many HR to be anything more than just another guy in a decent pen. Some of that was no doubt related to Cincy's silly ballpark, and some of it was probably bad luck (nobody's really homer-prone enough to yield 25+% HR/FB rates), but you'd have a heck of a time convincing me he's any better than a 3.75 - 4.00 or so ERA short reliever in the long run, 17 scoreless IP or no.

 

Letting Suppan hit in the top of the 7th if his leash was only one baserunner was totally indefensible, Dusty Baker-level dumb managing.

 

Overall, I've been fine with Macha so far. Don't care about Hart / Hardy 2 vs. 5, and really don't care about Suppan on opening day and the rotation order stuff, and those seem to be the chief complaints people have against him to this point. Today, however, I was pretty unimpressed, results notwithstanding.

[brewtank34]

I believe I remember reading something earlier this spring training from Macha saying something to the fact that he's a believer in getting his starting pitcher out of the game by the 7th if he has a lead...also if the SP isn't at his max pitch count. I don't have a source for this comment, but I'm positive I heard Macha in an interview say this.

 

My question to this is...Leaving Soup in to start the 7th goes against what his beliefs were. Does anyone else remember Macha saying this.

 

On a positive...I didn't trust any other pitcher in our BP to finish that game...looks like Macha didn't either. I like that he stayed with Coffee. Very much so.

[BrewCityUnit]

My question is, if he was only going to let DeFelice pitch to one batter (if he didn't get him out) why wouldn't he just brought Coffey in after removing Stetter. Letting Suppan hit in the 7th was not a smart move at all. So far, I am not impressed by Macha but I guess anything is better than Yost.

[Fatter than Joey]

My question is, if he was only going to let DeFelice pitch to one batter

 

I don't think that was the plan -- he threw 4 straight balls and got the hook -- that is my guess

[twobrewers]

I've loved how Macha has managed the pitchers thus far...

 

When a pitcher is struggling, he takes him out. It is a very novel idea.

 

Yost always like to let his pitchers "work through it". Macha manages his bullpen based on results. As soon as DiFelice threw 4 balls - Macha could tell he didn't have his best stuff and pulled him.

 

I agree with the kudos.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I didn't like Suppan hitting there or coming out for the next inning, but I will give credit to Macha for the quick hook. With a lack of faith in the bullpen, I can see the rationale for trying to squeeze an extra inning out of Suppan. However the loss of the at-bat, the 4th time through the lineup and the pitch count all argue against it IMO.

 

I do like them bringing in the best reliever in the highest leverage situation and letting him go. This church of the closer stuff is overrated. Put your best reliever in the highest leverage spot in the 7-9 innings. If 3-4-5 are up in a close game with 2 on in the 7th...why would you let your all-star closer sit in the pen? Especially one that K's people. Not that we have that right now....more of a MLB issue in general.

[monty57]

brewtown82 wrote:

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monty57 wrote:

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I don't think today's game is a good one to give Macha credit for.

 

why? Even if it didn't work, you're better off pitching Coffey there then letting DiFelice give up the game. Ultimately, its the players that get it done, I just think that the strategic shift from defined "roles" for relievers to using the best for the situation is better.

 

As others have said, leaving Suppan in to hit when he led off the inning and was over 95 pitches and was lucky to get out of the previous inning was not a good move. He gave up a hit that got us into the situation you're lauding. I have nothing against bringing in Coffey when he did, and actually I think that was a good move. Then, Coffey was lucky to get out of the 8th and he was allowed to hit and brought back out in the 9th. He's pitched very well this year, but we're not talking about Mariano Rivera here. If he gave up the tying run in the 9th, people would've been calling for Macha's head.

 

I do like them bringing in the best reliever in the highest leverage situation and letting him go. This church of the closer stuff is overrated. Put your best reliever in the highest leverage spot in the 7-9 innings. If 3-4-5 are up in a close game with 2 on in the 7th...why would you let your all-star closer sit in the pen? Especially one that K's people. Not that we have that right now....more of a MLB issue in general.

 

If a manager puts his closer in in the 7th and the closer doesn't perform, everyone will say "the closer was put in a position he wasn't used to," and the manager will take a lot of heat. If the closer performs and gets out of the tight spot, then the game goes into the ninth with a one-run lead. The closer has been burned, so the manager turns to another reliever, who loses the game. The manager takes a lot of heat. Do this enough and the manager is fired. Also, "closers" get paid a lot more than all other relievers. If a manager eliminates the "closer" role, his best reliever(s) will be very upset with him, as that manager has cost the reliever(s) a ton of money. Finally, most closers have a set routine. Many times, they won't even go to the pen until mid-game. Many of them get massages during the game, sit in the hot tub, etc. Baseball players are ritualistic. If you break that ritual, it may not have good results.

 

Not saying these reasons justify not bringing in your best reliever when he would be the most useful, but it's probably why they don't.

[TheCrew07]

Macha takes care of the one huge issue I had with Yost, which was defined bull pen roles. This guy gets the 7th, the next the 8th, and my closer the 9th. It would always tick me to have 1 reliever breeze through an inning in 10 pitches and Yost go to the next guy even though the pitcher's spot didn't come up in the order. If a guy has it going on, let him pitch another inning, if he doesn't then by all means move on to the next reliever.

 

Suppan batting and pitching drew my ire and I realize that all managers are going to make moves the fans don't like so I'm okay it. The team needed a win, he probably over complicated the situation in the 7th, but a 2 pitch DP ball and all was right with the world.

[giffted1]

I'd probably wait a bit before coming to the conclusion that Macha is gonna scrap the defined bullpen roles. I'm guessing that when Hoffman comes back the bullpen roles will become a bit more defined.