The Mat Gamel watch

[JJHardy7]

Again, that article mentions terrible throwing accuracy. I am sure that accuracy was made to look worse throwing to a short and obese 1st baseman with poor footwork and little ability to scoop a ball.

 

And Braun was a converted 3B. How many games did he play there in the pros? There's a good chance that he'll play more OF in the pros than 3B in the pros (counting minor league games) by the end of the year. He made the switch late in college from SS to 3B. I'm not saying Braun wasn't bad. He was. I am saying it was 4/5 of a season at a position and then was moved. Comparing him to Gamel is not the right way to go about it in a lot of detail IMO.

[Never Outhustled]

Gamel with HR number 8 tonight. That puts him on pace for 39 for a minor league season. A total like that would put to bed the fears a few had that he didn't have huge power.

 

I can't wait to see Mat DH in inter-league play (since the team probably won't follow my recommendation and have him play 1B and have Fielder DH), he will give us the advatage over most AL teams at that position!

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Gamel with HR number 8 tonight. That puts him on pace for 39 for a minor league season. A total like that would put to bed the fears a few had that he didn't have huge power.

 

I can't wait to see Mat DH in inter-league play (since the team probably won't follow my recommendation and have him play 1B and have Fielder DH), he will give us the advatage over most AL teams at that position!

Why would Gamel play 1B if he's never done it in his career?

[battlekow]

It's not unheard of for players to play first base on an experimental/emergency basis even if they don't have much experience. Ramon Hernandez got just his second career start at first base tonight against the Brewers. Nonetheless, I doubt Gamel will be playing first in Milwaukee this year.

[Never Outhustled]

Why would Gamel play 1B if he's never done it in his career?

We could always have him work they for a week before interleague play to prepare him for this. A little cross-training might be good for his 3B defense, to get a chance to watch another 3B play from accross the diamond might give him a little different perspective.

 

Remember back in the day when Cirillo was in his prime? He had a kneck injury and couldn't play 3B for awhile because he couldn't turn his head. With no practice, he moved to 1B where he was instantly sensational. I'm not asking Gamel to be sensational at 1B, just better than the limbless stump that plays there now.

[JJHardy7]

We could always have him work they for a week before interleague play to prepare him for this. A little cross-training might be good for his 3B defense, to get a chance to watch another 3B play from accross the diamond might give him a little different perspective.

 

Remember back in the day when Cirillo was in his prime? He had a kneck injury and couldn't play 3B for awhile because he couldn't turn his head. With no practice, he moved to 1B where he was instantly sensational. I'm not asking Gamel to be sensational at 1B, just better than the limbless stump that plays there now.

 

I get what you're saying X, but there's no way I take Gamel off of 3B to play any other position this year. I really think he's made some pretty big strides with his defense the past two weeks or so. I still think his shoulder injury in spring training kind of slowed him a bit. I don't mind him being a DH, but anything other than 3B can wait until the off-season if they decide he's not ready.

 

I get the feeling that if a trade is made that shakes up the MLB Gamel will be ready to play 3B by end of June/early July. Nothing can really happen now unless you bench Hall.

[JohnBriggs12]

The value of having a 2nd big lefty bat in the lineup would be negated by making room for Gamel by dealing Fielder. Now eventually Gamel could well end up at 1B after Fielder does leave, but not before he spends a year or two at 3B so they can go with that lineup that includes 2 lefty boppers. The room in the lineup will come from a deal involving a right handed bat or by Cameron's departure through FA. If that happens Hall could return to CF, assuming he's not dealt also.

[JJHardy7]

The value of having a 2nd big lefty bat in the lineup would be negated by making room for Gamel by dealing Fielder. Now eventually Gamel could well end up at 1B after Fielder does leave, but not before he spends a year or two at 3B so they can go with that lineup that includes 2 lefty boppers. The room in the lineup will come from a deal involving a right handed bat or by Cameron's departure through FA. If that happens Hall could return to CF, assuming he's not dealt also.

 

I don't mean to say or imply it's dealing Fielder. If it would happen though, you have to consider the cost savings also and not just the value of having a 2nd big lefty bat. The way Cam is playing I want him back next year. To me, that means Hall is traded.

[TheCrew07]

I don't want to get into another handedness argument, but wouldn't it make sense to put the best possible TEAM on the field? We spend so much time arguing about position players when we should be discussing the rotation because we have no options there. If Mat batted from the right side I bet we'd see the same arguments about Fielder being the only LH bat... he's not staying in Milwaukee long-term nor should we want him to, his defensive issues limit his total value. The question is how to get the best value out of Fielder... as far as Prince is concerned the argument is draft picks vs prospects... not left handed batter vs left handed batter.

 

X isn't going to let the 1B argument go because Mat would be 3.5+ win player tomorrow at 1B. I prefer he stays at 3B and DHs during interleague play. I don't see Melvin making a bold move and trading Fielder, and really I wonder if he'll move Hardy either even though he has a ready made replacement waiting.

 

I know it's easy to trivialize what's going on in Cincy and Pittsburg but they are building terrific young pitching staffs. The Cubs already have the best staff in the division... the Brewers are on pace to have the 4th best rotation in the division while having a top notch offense. Historically how well do teams do that lack pitching? Look at Texas or Detroit last year, offense is great and puts butts in the seats, but pitching wins championships. Sure we can maybe squeak into the playoffs here and there but we aren't going anywhere unless the rotation gets addressed. We don't have to average 6 runs per game if the staff is only giving up 3.5 runs...

 

St. Louis is always brought up because they had horrible pitching the year they won the title, but they played great defense, shortened their rotation to cut out the garbage for the playoffs, and Suppan pitched one of the best stretches of his career. In the post season their pitching was excellent, so yes they barely got in and won it all, but they played great defense and had a potent offense all season... they fixed the pitching issues in the post season by simply not letting their crappy pitchers pitch.

[kramnoj]

offense is great and puts butts in the seats, but pitching wins championships.

 

How much truth is there to this? Having great pitching didn't help the Braves win championships.

 

I did a cursory look at WS champions during the WC era, and I didn't find one overwhelming characteristic. Teams need to be good and there are different ways to make that happen.

[TheCrew07]

Then you didn't look very hard.

 

Teams that do well in the post season do very well in all 3 phases of the game; offense, defense, and pitching. The Phillies won it the year their pitching matched the rest of their game, the year Colorado squeaked in was their best pitching season, and most obviously the Brewers got there last year even though their offense was actually worse in '08 than it was in '07. It's not very difficult to go look year by year and view the team rankings by offense and pitching, I used ESPN's stat page.

[kramnoj]

offense is great and puts butts in the seats, but pitching wins championships.

 

Teams that do well in the post season do very well in all 3 phases of the game; offense, defense, and pitching.

 

These are two different statements. The second one is obviously true. It contradicts the first statement.

[TheCrew07]

So basically you're going to go around and argue semantics instead of the spirit of the post in every single thread?

 

My point was supposed to be that we have plenty of offense and not enough pitching, the same point I've been making since late 2007.

 

I'm not getting into the conflicting statements argument with you again, it's a waste of everyone's time, this was a productive thread.

[sbrylski]

Its not productive if your arguments aren't continuous. Kram is right, you stated two different things.

[kramnoj]

So basically you're going to go around and argue semantics instead of the spirit of the post in every single thread?

 

No.

 

My point was supposed to be that we have plenty of offense and not enough pitching, the same point I've been making since late 2007.

 

Is there anybody who disagrees with this?

 

Pitching wins championships doesn't seem open to interpretation. Maybe you just threw in a cliche and didn't mean it, but the bulk of your post seemed to focus on the Brewers not being able to win without a focus on pitching. Since everybody would agree that the Brewers need more pitching, it seemed like you were focusing on the pitching over team building.

[TooLiveBrew]

The value of having a 2nd big lefty bat in the lineup would be negated by making room for Gamel by dealing Fielder.

 

Except that Fielder would bring a huge return in trade... which wouldn't negate anything. It would make us a far better team.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Why would Gamel play 1B if he's never done it in his career?

We could always have him work they for a week before interleague play to prepare him for this. A little cross-training might be good for his 3B defense, to get a chance to watch another 3B play from accross the diamond might give him a little different perspective.

 

Remember back in the day when Cirillo was in his prime? He had a kneck injury and couldn't play 3B for awhile because he couldn't turn his head. With no practice, he moved to 1B where he was instantly sensational. I'm not asking Gamel to be sensational at 1B, just better than the limbless stump that plays there now.

I don't disagree that it would be a good idea, but I don't want Gamel brought up for the first time to play a position he hasn't played.

[southpaw121505]

There would be no problem at all playing Gamel at 3rd, so what if it's his first time, its first base. He plays 3rd base everyday, he can clearly field groundballs, pretty sure he can catch. It's not like Fielder is a wall for bad throws anyways, the second Gamel trots over to first he'd be a better first baseman (defensive obviously). The only downfall I could see is a slight one and it was mentioned earlier, that playing 1st he's not getting better at 3rd. I don't think that's a big deal at all though.

[tyguy20204]

Sorry guys, but there's no way that they bring Gamel up and start him at 1b for the week. It would pretty much be a debacle as far as clubhouse chemistry goes. Yes, I know that you'll counter with the fact that clubhouse chemistry means nothing...but come on, you don't bring up a rookie that's never played 1b before and sub him in for your all-star 1b. Prince might not be good defensively, but he takes pride in being able to field his position. You won't see it happen. Zero chance.

[nate82]

Sorry guys, but there's no way that they bring Gamel up and start him at 1b for the week. It would pretty much be a debacle as far as clubhouse chemistry goes. Yes, I know that you'll counter with the fact that clubhouse chemistry means nothing...but come on, you don't bring up a rookie that's never played 1b before and sub him in for your all-star 1b. Prince might not be good defensively, but he takes pride in being able to field his position. You won't see it happen. Zero chance.

Not a zero chance. Rivera played 1B for a game in Boston I believe. I'm sorry my memory may not be spot on with that but I believe Rivera did play 1B at least once last year in an interleague game I'm just not sure if it was at home or in the Boston series. Fielder is going to play DH for at least one game during the interleague games.

[battlekow]

Rivera started at first on 7/1 at Arizona and 9/30 against the Mets. He also played first on 4/30 at Chicago. Prior to that, he'd played a little first for Nashville in the years he spent there and before that for Charlotte in 2004 and one inning for San Diego in 2003.

[Invader3K]

There's a big difference playing an MLB catcher at 1B and playing a newly called up AAA 3B at 1B, though. I think this notion that Gamel will be transitioned to 1B is completely fan generated at this point.

[zelouswheeler4prez]

I personally feel as though Mat Gamel can do more to hurt this team than help it. That being said, i know he brings a good lefty bat thats about as major league ready as is going to be. It would be fun to have another prospect come up and make the same offensive impact that Brauny did in 07. I just feel as though right now, as much as i hate to say this, we really don't need him. The team is coming into its own, and I think any disruptions could be detrimental to the team. It can't be good to have a guy that can't perform in the field go out there and take a spot from a proven starter. So for now, the only logical place I see Gamel is staying down at AAA, and hopefully taking infield till he goes insane.

[Invader3K]

Exactly zealous...it would be one thing if the team was struggling, but they're not. Bill Hall is playing well, and there's no point in calling up Gamel to have him mostly ride the bench.

[mkm13]

It all depends on if Hall can continue playing as well as he has so far. If he starts hitting like he did the last couple years, Gamel would help a lot. Also, Hall would sure make our bench look a bit better than it is right now. There is always the option of trading Hall as if he keeps this up he should have some value.