The Mat Gamel watch

[Never Outhustled]

Mat Gamel is off to an unreal start at the plate. He also continues to commit errors. At what point do the Brewers move him to a position that would allow him to be called up? With Bill Hall back to playing the way he's capable, it doesn't seem worthwhile to wait for Gamel to be able to play 3B at a tollerable level, and shouldn't we strive for good defense, not just tollerable?

[JohnBriggs12]

Mat Gamel is off to an unreal start at the plate. He also continues to commit errors. At what point do the Brewers move him to a position that would allow him to be called up? With Bill Hall back to playing the way he's capable, it doesn't seem worthwhile to wait for Gamel to be able to play 3B at a tollerable level, and shouldn't we strive for good defense, not just tollerable?

 

It's way too early to say "he also continues to make errors" because he's made 2 in 4 games. Escobar made 2 in one game. They aren't going to move him off 3B based on 4 games. Remember his error total came down significantly from 07 to 08. He's going to get a full season at Nashville. I think he'll be okay working with Money.

[greeg35]

I agree with JohnBriggs. I also think it is too soon to say Hall is back to playing the way he is capable.

[wallus]

Who would he replace on the mlb roster? I say let him work on things as long as possible. It would be ideal for the roster configuration for him to be the starting 3rd baseman.

[Mass Haas]

C'mon Bill Hall's OPS is .875.

 

But on a serious sidenote, as long as Billy's doing the job, you may as well play the David Price / Matt Weiters game and delay until at least June to avoid early arbitration Super-2 status.

[Never Outhustled]

But on a serious sidenote, as long as Billy's doing the job, you may as well play the David Price / Matt Weiters game and delay until at least June to avoid early arbitration Super-2 status.

I agree with this, but in all likelihood, his defense still won't be ready by then. His bat was MLB ready mid-season last year. If he doesn't start playing the OF now, he won't be ready to play that anytime soon either. He's already been held back by his defense.

 

Having him available at another position would give the Brewers some serious options.

[Invader3K]

You want to move him to the outfield? Who would he replace? It's not worth it to bring him up, just to have him ride the bench or make spot starts as a 4th OF.

[TheCrew07]

If I'm following X correctly, he'd replace Hart, who could then be moved for pitching...

[Never Outhustled]

If I'm following X correctly, he'd replace Hart, who could then be moved for pitching

Bingo, I just didn't want the thread bogged down with trade scenarios. Creating a surplus of great talent at a position can be very beneficial.

I just wanted to stick to the original question: Is it worth waiting for his defense to become tollerable at 3B?

[Brian the Automator]

I just wanted to stick to the original question: Is it worth waiting for his defense to become tollerable at 3B?

I think so. The Brewers have other options in the outfield as far as prospects go (Cain, Gillespie), but absolutely nothing at 3B. I think if he doesn't figure it out by the end of this year, then you think about perhaps putting him in a corner OF slot.

[Never Outhustled]

I think so. The Brewers have other options in the outfield as far as prospects go (Cain, Gillespie), but absolutely nothing at 3B.

Thats a pretty major slam on Taylor Green. I assume you just forgot him because he's out right now, but will be back soon according to Mr. Kusnick. Green is everybit as good of a prospect as Gillespie. Bill Hall is signed through next year, where as there will be an opening in the OF next year.

 

I think if he doesn't figure it out by the end of this year, then you think about perhaps putting him in a corner OF slot.

So you go into next season with him in the minors learning to play the OF, or he gets on the job training as a rookie in the Majors?

[TheCrew07]

Well it's not as if 3B is devoid of prospects... there's still Green who appears to be capable of playing 3B, my boy Trejo, and for some reason I see Lawrie as a 2B/3B as well. Nothing other than gut feeling based on his athletic prowess, but if he can play 2B he should be able to slide over to 3B. The comments made during spring and linked in other threads led me to believe that the organization has left the door open and is willing to move Lawrie in order to get his bat in the lineup. I hope we don't see some sort of Hartesque type movement out of him, but he should fit nicely someplace in the infield down the road.

 

As far as Gamel is concerned, I'd say they'd have to wait until mid June minimum to avoid super 2 status, but after that it depends on his D. His greatest value is as a 3B, but if they don't think he'll stick Melvin likes to move position players in the off season so we could see him switch positions over the winter if the team wants to try Hart in CF or move him for pitching.

 

So far I've seen Bill Hall being Bill Hall... the very good and the very bad usually a few innings apart.

[Brian the Automator]

I think so. The Brewers have other options in the outfield as far as prospects go (Cain, Gillespie), but absolutely nothing at 3B.

Thats a pretty major slam on Taylor Green. I assume you just forgot him because he's out right now, but will be back soon according to Mr. Kusnick. Green is everybit as good of a prospect as Gillespie. Bill Hall is signed through next year, where as there will be an opening in the OF next year.

 

I think if he doesn't figure it out by the end of this year, then you think about perhaps putting him in a corner OF slot.

So you go into next season with him in the minors learning to play the OF, or he gets on the job training as a rookie in the Majors?

I did somewhat forget about Taylor Green, but I see him as more of a reserve. I'd rather have my 3rd-baseman have a little more pop.

 

I'd probably send Gamel to the AFL to work on playing the outfield. That, along with S/T, should give him a leg up. He'd probably still be learning on the job to start 2010 to some extent, but I really like his bat at 3B.

[JJHardy7]

I still don't see what the rush with Gamel is. He's barely played at AAA. I think Brewers' fans have been spoiled with Fielder and Braun coming up and continuing to rake. That's not always the case. I think Gamel should stay in AAA all year in an ideal world. His defense will play at the MLB level. Most of his errors are mental errors. If he can't figure that out, who is to say he will at another position? OFs still have to throw the ball and that's where Mat is making most of his mistakes. He just needs to slow down the game and he'll be fine. I keep him at 3B all year and make a decision in the off-season.

 

The Brewers appear (very early I know) to have more pressing issues at the MLB level than Gamel. Now if Hart is moved and all that it's a different story. I just don't see the Brewers making that move. If Gamel does stick at 3B, the Brewers are set there for a very long time. I've seen Gamel play a few times and he has a MLB bat. Let's not 'make the bat' play again like they did with Braun. Give the kid some time to work with Money. Again, I just don't understand the plug guys around theory. IMO Braun is a better athlete than Gamel and I'm not so sure Gamel would be ready for the MLB OF for a few years. He would need some time to make it work. I think Gamel will be at 3B or 1B. If the Brewers traded Hart now, I think they would just plug Nelson in (not saying that's right or wrong) and Gamel wouldn't be in the discussion for 2009 in the OF.

[Never Outhustled]

I'd rather have my 3rd-baseman have a little more pop.

While I agree power is important at 3B, isn't it even more important in a corner OF position? Green showed more power at a younger age in the FSL than Gillespie, whom you consider a OF alternative. I'm not sure if Cain fits in this conversation, as he is earmarked for CF, not a corner OF position.

[endaround]

Yes their is an opening in the OF but the Brewers don't seem to want Hart anywhere near CF. Yes Green is at 3B but is still at least a year behind Gamel and can be moved to 2B if Gamel sticks anyway. Given that Hall was already platooned last year and he can play elsewhere for a year if he needs to be on the bench 3B is much more open than a corner OF spot for 2009. Keeping him at 3B gives the Brewers many more options right now. That said if Braun ends up sidelined tonight for 6 weeks expect Gamel to start taking flyballs tomorrow. I don't think anybody here sees Gillespie as a permanent starter.

[JJHardy7]

That said if Braun ends up sidelined tonight for 6 weeks expect Gamel to start taking flyballs tomorrow.

 

I agree with this. This would be a situation where I could see Gamel moved this year and coming to Milwaukee. The only way he's up without an injury/trade IMO is if he continues to improve his defense. I really hope that folks here get a chance to see Gamel play before trying to give a scouting report on his defense. Errors in the minors can be a very, very poor stat to look at. I just think Gamel at 3B >>> Gamel corner OF spot. I think it'll be a bit easier to find a corner OF than a 3B with the potential that Gamel has.

[brewman04]

Lets see what he does with another year under Don Money before we look to move Him

[Mass Haas]

A factor in all this is do the Brewers see themselves breking in three new big league starters in April 2010? (Escobar, Cain, and Gamel)

 

Sorry, Hardy fans, he's not going to sign an extension this winter when he's only one year away from free agency.

 

So if Gamel does not see significant playing time in 2009, that's the possible scenario you face.

[TheCrew07]

I've considered that Mass, which is the main reason the Gamel platoon with Hall from BCB has grown on me, as it somewhat limit's his defensive liabilities while he gains valuable MLB experience. The burning a year of service time issue doesn't really bother at all considering Gamel's age and if the team signs him to a deal that buys out a single year of FA he'll be on the downside of 30 by the time he's a FA. He could get 2 more months or so with Money before moving up. At the very least he's going to stay in the minors till mid June.

 

If the team expects young players to sign team friendly deals they have to treat the kids accordingly. What I mean to suggest is if Mat continues to rake, he's earned a look, especially considering he's an impact lefty which many people around here have pined for the last 2 off seasons. There's really no holding back of position prospects that aren't legitimately blocked... Escobar is blocked by Hardy and could benefit from some refinement this season as noted by Macha, but who's truly standing in Gamel's way other than Mat's own defense? From the player's perspective, Milwaukee would hurt Mat's future earning potential if he's ready and they hold him back, even if it would be a platoon role.

 

At the very least if the plan is to keep Gamel in AAA all year I hope he comes up to DH during interleague play, as happy as I am for Nelson, I'd rather see Gamel in that role.

 

On the error issue, Counsell also has 2 errors already, I'd rather let a month or 2 pass before trying to quantify how Mat's defense has progressed, if at all.

[DHonks]

Mass, I'm still convinced that Cain won't be starting next year. He's still a long ways off. But I think you could see Lucroy or Salome in there

[fondybrewfan]

Mass, I'm still convinced that Cain won't be starting next year. He's still a long ways off. But I think you could see Lucroy or Salome in there

Assuming all these prospects have good years this year I would suspect that Salome, Gamel, Escobar, and very likely Jeffress could be on the opening day roster next year. Escobar would be the only one that is really blocked. And unless Hall is moved back to CF again next year Cain also probably has a decent shot at cracking the 25 next April. I highly doubt Melvin would want all those guys debuting at the same time so I would suspect some trades somewhere to get a decent mix of veteran/rookie talent starting the 2010 season. When you think about it Braun is probably the only player guaranteed to be on the roster next year, every other position player could theoritcally be playing elsewhere next year.

 

But back to the topic at hand, I really like Mat Gamel, at least based on stats and on the opinion of those who have seen him play. If Gamel could play an entire year with under 25 errors I think it is worth giving him a shot. I am not sure that is feasible at this point though

[endaround]

I don't think Jeffress has a chance at the opening day roster. He only pitched 85 innings last year. He might get 100 this year. That means like 110-120 next year. He won't start then and I doubt they put him in relief at this point. And this assumes he gets some control.

[TheCrew07]

He also pitched some AFL innings end... but I agree he won't be ready for the starting rotation next year.

[fondybrewfan]

I don't think Jeffress has a chance at the opening day roster. He only pitched 85 innings last year. He might get 100 this year. That means like 110-120 next year. He won't start then and I doubt they put him in relief at this point. And this assumes he gets some control.

So you don't think he could get the Joba Chamberlain/Brandon Morrow treatment? Granted his wildness wouldn't bode well for bullpen duty but I guess it could be considered feasible. That really doesn't do much good in terms of building up his innings though for when he is ready to be a starter. So I guess I am a little split. But if he doesn't develop some conrol fast I would agree that he should be now where near an MLB bullpen. I still think if he has a crazy good year that their is a slight chance of him cracking the roster next year