Hardy/Hart lineup switch

[liveforoctober]

This complaining about lineup spots is probably the thing I like least about baseball. It's unbelievable to me that a guy could be an all-star at one spot, but according to some people, if they are moved from that spot, they'll be terrible. It's not like we are talking about having Aaron Rodgers play wide receiver or Andrew Bogut play point guard, we're talking about something that has no difference in duties or expectations at all from their previous spot. If guys are that flustered from such a move, they won't be long for the majors and I definitely hope they won't be long for the Brewers.

I couldn't disagree with this more. Physically speaking batting is the same whether you are batting first or ninth or anywhere in between... but psychologically you can seriously mess with a hitter's mind where you put him in the order. I'm sure you have played baseball before, so you know that if you are not in the right mindset when you go up to the plate, it doesn't matter what you can do physically. If a guy has always prepared to be in the on deck circle when the first pitch is thrown, and suddenly he is still sipping water with 2 outs and just then he has to go get his batting helmet... you can get anxious. Vice versa, if you have always prepared to wait through the first few batters and watched the pitcher throw to a few guys and now you are the 2nd guy to face him... you can absolutely feel rushed.

 

Of course it happens, and yes guys adjust, but the timing of the switch is what confuses me.

 

Furthermore, you know that the pitches a player gets is completely different depending on where he bats in the order. The great hitters like Pujols and Chipper Jones and possibly someday Ryan Braun maybe it wouldn't matter as much... but fringe all-stars like JJ and Corey Hart it makes all the difference in the world.

[clancyphile]

I think this experiment needs to end sooner rather than later. Hardy's done well at #2, and it was not really broken the last two years - so why try to fix it?

 

As for Hart... I'm beginning to think that if he struggles by the break, it may be time to give Cole Gillespie a shot in right. He's looked pretty good so far, and quite frankly, his OBP skills stand in sharp contrast to Hart's.

[Never Outhustled]

Hardy's done well at #2,

Hardy entered the season with a higher career OPS at #5 than #2.

 

Hart's 353 OBA in 2007 was higher than Hardy has had in any professional season, majors or minors. He's a great fit for the #2 spot, if he gets back to being the real Corey Hart. If he continues to be lost, then we don'twant him at #2, #5, or even #8.

 

I find it hard to believe Hart has lost it forever though. The guy was awesome from the beginning of 2007 to mid-season 2008.

 

I think speed is much more important in the bottom of the lineup where you have singles hitters and the pitcher, where you are more likely to play small ball(ugh).

Braun and Fielder hit more singles per AB than Cameron, Hall, and Kendall, and way more than the pitchers.

 

Pitchers don't want to walk batters in front of Braun and Fielder, so they're more likely to throw fastballs. Hardy is one of the better fastball hitters in the league, so he should be put in the position where he will see the most fastballs.

Hart is every bit as good at hitting fastballs as Hardy, and would likely benefit more by batting in a spot where pitchers are more likely to throw strikes.

[RobDeer 45]

Way to small of a sample size right now. The only thing I worry about is that those two might start to doubt themselves at this point. If it gets in their head that they are better batters in the other spot then they are doomed and they need to switch them back. If they can stay mentally tough then they are probably better off in their new slots. You know how superstitious baseball players are though......

[Thurston Fluff]

Furthermore, you know that the pitches a player gets is completely different depending on where he bats in the order.

 

I think the pitches a player gets depends far more on what the hitters history tells them he can and can't hit than where he bats in the order. Hart will not see any fewer sliders off the plate hitting ahead of Braun and Fielder than he would after them. Throwing sliders off the plate to him is the best way for pitchers to make sure they don't have to pitch to those next two guys with a runner on base.

[silversurferr]

Argue all you want, but Hart and Hardy are interchangeable. Either will hit okay in the second, fifth or sixth spot. What the lineup really needs is a lefty that can hit tough right handers. (Ie., not Counsell). Probably makes sense to move Hart for a left-handed, power hitting outfielder. Or for pitching; then call up Gamel to play right.

[RU Rah Rah]

I really don't like Hardy's hands. They're too low, and the way he holds them out over the plate before the pitch--ugh. And Hart flails at pitches, drives me crazy. I can't tell you how much I'm pulling for Nelson.

I was thinking the same thing. If I remember Ted Williams' The Science of Hitting correctly, he stresses not getting your hands too far away from your body as you wait for the pitch. JJ is about 2/3 extended now, it looks like.

[logan82]

Braun and Fielder hit more singles per AB than Cameron, Hall, and Kendall, and way more than the pitchers.

 

They also hit way more extra base hits. OBP should be the deciding factor, not speed. Speed shouldn't be taken into consideration until after you have your top of the lineup decided.

 

AB/single

Fielder 6.125

Braun 6.71

Cameron 7.93

Hall 7.622

Kendall 5.55

[rluzinski]

Furthermore, you know that the pitches a player gets is completely different depending on where he bats in the order.

 

I've seen data that shows very small differences between pitch types by batting spot. I won't say it's insignificant (I don't really know) but it's subtle. It is certainly not "completely different".

 

I think it matters very little where a guy bats. Even if moving a guy to a different sport in the lineup hurts his production by 5% (which would be a huge effect), you wouldn't be able to notice it over a couple of starts.