Hardy/Hart lineup switch

[liveforoctober]

I don't know... I guess I just find it hard to believe that two guys who were as locked in as Corey Hart and JJ Hardy during spring training...could both look so terrible at the plate these first two games. I understand this could just be a temporary move to see what happens... but how long do we experiment with Corey in the 2 spot and JJ hitting 5 before we go back to the old ways?

 

By the way, it was only the 2nd batter of the season on Tuesday that I was throwing something at my TV when Corey swung at the first pitch and almost grounded into a DP. Hart is the opposite of a patient hitter... which is generally what you ask for in that spot. I understand the fact that he beat out that throw and it wasn't a DP is a big reason why he is in the second slot... but still.

 

Just sayin'...

 

(edit: thread title --1992)

[paul253]

I was kind of wondering about that myself. Hardy seemed to have more success out of the 2 spot last year. I don't think he's an ideal 2, but I think hes better than Hart. Hart was always bit of an RBI machine, which I think is better suited in the #5 or #6 spot. Oh well, we'll see what happens.

[endaround]

The reason I didn't like was because Hart shouldn't run in front of Braun and Fielder in most cases so you are taking away his ability to steal.

[bigredrobbo]

I think they'll get switched back soon, but I'm not worried about 2 games - however bad they both looked at the plate.

[naivin]

I disagreed with this move the moment I heard about it. I could be wrong of course, but I don't like it.

[Tbadder]

I really don't like Hardy's hands. They're too low, and the way he holds them out over the plate before the pitch--ugh. And Hart flails at pitches, drives me crazy. I can't tell you how much I'm pulling for Nelson.

[joepepsi]

I don't worry too much about Hardy. He seems to go into funks from time to time, then bursts out with a vengeance. Hacker Hart is more worrisome. I am still hopeful Macha does not tolerate shabby play like Ned did. If Hart can't hit righties anymore, he doesn't deserve to play against them.

[theavrock]

but how long do we experiment with Corey in the 2 spot and JJ hitting 5 before we go back to the old ways?

 

More than two games.

[Invader3K]

I guess I'll never understand how a batter can be _that_ affected by what spot in the lineup they're hitting from. I understand they face slightly different pitches, but I just don't get how a guy can excel in one spot and whiff badly in another. I'm hoping both Hardy and Hart are just having a bit of a slow start.

[Ennder]

The change shouldn't have been made in the first place so I hope they decide to swap it back sooner rather than later.

[Gobias Industries]

These two guys are probably are streakiest hitters, especially JJ. I'd say we give it at least a week or two before Macha would pull the plug.

[Invader3K]

Yeah...and let's face it. If they each get a couple hits tonight, or hit a home run each, we're probably not even continuing this conversation.

[yount19.u]

If they are still struggling in a couple of weeks, then Macha should consider switching them back. He needs to give it enough time to actually succeed or fail. I don't think their struggles have anything to do with being switched in the batting order, though. It's probably just a coincidence.

[milwaukeesportsfan]

I didn't understand the timing of the switch. Why wait until the last game of spring training to make the switch? Baseball players are creatures of habit. It seemed that it was working well before the switch. If it isn't broke...

[Thurston Fluff]

Is there really all that much difference? I understand to an extent the difference between the 8th hitter but all the rest will see a different scenario every at bat anyway. If a player really is that much different depending on where he bats doesn't that sort of say something about his real ability? If they can only succeed in perfect situations then they really aren't that good. Personally I think both are good so it shouldn't matter all that much.

[logan82]

I think that Hardy will have a higher OBP, but Hart is a much better base runner. I think those are the reasons to switch them back, not because they are struggling. I think speed is much more important in the bottom of the lineup where you have singles hitters and the pitcher, where you are more likely to play small ball(ugh).

[CheezWizHed]

Hart's elbow is all wrong!

 

The whole stay out of the DP thing has me confused... Won't Hardy have more chances to hit into a DP by hitting after Hart/Braun/Fielder instead of Kendal/Pitcher/Weeks? I realize you don't want the DP in front of Braun and Fielder, but it seems like he will have a MUCH higher percentage of chances now.

 

Technically, spot in the lineup shouldn't have any effect on your batting, but I think it does psychologically. Especially if you are asked to do something special (i.e. take a few more pitches) different than normal. Hopefully Hart/Hardy aren't the superstitious type. But last year at this time, we did the same with Braun and Fielder and they did poorly when swapped.

[JoeHova]

This complaining about lineup spots is probably the thing I like least about baseball. It's unbelievable to me that a guy could be an all-star at one spot, but according to some people, if they are moved from that spot, they'll be terrible. It's not like we are talking about having Aaron Rodgers play wide receiver or Andrew Bogut play point guard, we're talking about something that has no difference in duties or expectations at all from their previous spot. If guys are that flustered from such a move, they won't be long for the majors and I definitely hope they won't be long for the Brewers.

[dlk9s]

Hart is batting 7th today, while Counsell is hitting 2nd and playing third base.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/42759952.html

[fondybrewfan]

Well Counsell is subbing for Hall today and is batting 2nd bumping Hart to the 7 spot.

 

I guess I don't see a big problem with the lineup today, but I wouldn't have a problem with Hardy 2nd, Hart 5th, and Counsell 7th

[monty57]

Pitchers don't want to walk batters in front of Braun and Fielder, so they're more likely to throw fastballs. Hardy is one of the better fastball hitters in the league, so he should be put in the position where he will see the most fastballs. IIRC, Ned tried several times to move Hardy down in the order. His reasoning was that Hardy wasn't fast enough, and that he's a pull hitter, and your #2 hitter should be able to hit behind runners. On both occasions I remember him trying this, he later moved Hardy back to #2.

 

I know Macha wanted to come into Spring Training with a "clean slate," so he'd be able to make his own decisions, but I think it would be nice if he'd look at what's happened in the past a little bit. This experiment has already been tried and it didn't work.

[MickeyDavis]

I know Macha wanted to come into Spring Training with a "clean slate," so he'd be able to make his own decisions, but I think it would be nice if he'd look at what's happened in the past a little bit. This experiment has already been tried and it didn't work.

For the three years 2006-2008, Hart batting second hit.348/.385 and Hardy batting 5th was .347/.389. What exactly didn't work about that?

[GormanHarvey]

During the 2nd half last year and especially the last month or so Hardy started to hit to the right side much more and with more power. Speed aside, he is a pretty dang good 2 hole hitter and that is where he should be IMO. As for Hart, I have never been a big fan and if he continues what he was doing last september I would really hope Nelson and/or Duffy see a sizable increase in PT

[zzzmanwitz]

We faced two pretty darn good pitchers in the first two games. Linsecum is the current Cy Young winner and Johnson looked awesome (except for a high fastball that Yo got a hold of). I'm not worried about them yet.

[cwolf2012]

Hart is looking a lot like last year right away. Up 2-0 in the count with 2 on base, swings at a slider low and away and pops it up. I have such a hard time understanding his thought process. Is his pitch recognition that bad? Even if so, just swing and miss. Don't force contact at 2-0, take the strike and wait for something better.