Hall/Weeks to the White Sox

[brewdude15]

I've never proposed a trade on here before, but I thought I'd give it a try. Although it's highly unlikely to happen, I would be thrilled if the Brewers could pull off a Hall and Weeks for Floyd/Danks and Dotel deal. The Sox could use a better 2B and CF, and obviously the Brewers need pitching. Dotel could be a nice arm in the 'pen, and either Floyd or Danks would instantly be our 2nd or 3rd starter.

 

Please try not ripping me to shreds on this...I just thought of it recently and figured I'd share it with you all.

[endaround]

The Brewers have no one to replace Weeks if you also move Hall.

[brewdude15]

Well, I forgot to include that this would be a deal made either towards the deadline, or sometime this offseason. Escobar could replace Rickie at 2B and Gamel should be ready by mid-season, at least. Once again, I know this is highly unlikely, but it just came to me.

[trwi7]

We wouldn't get Danks or Floyd for those two.

[brewdude15]

What about Buehrle?

[trwi7]

Those two aren't going to bring back anything we would want right now. Maybe a Jarrod Washburn type.

[brewdude15]

Again, I never said right now. I was talking about at either the deadline or sometime this offseason.

[TooLiveBrew]

If Weeks is playing well enough to bring somone like Danks or Buerhle back, the Brewers probably shouldn't be dealing him. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[southpaw121505]

I don't think Weeks is a big enough upgrade over Getz to make them give up Floyd or Danks, and I don't think Hall has much value in a trade when considering contract vs. production.

[logan82]

Hall looks much better to teams if they think he can play SS. I think he can still play SS. We will have to see how he does this year at the plate to find out what kind of hitter he is. I think the last 2 years are more what he is as a hitter, but I hope I am wrong. Of course if either Weeks or Hall play to their best years, we will not want to trade either. If they don't, we won't be able to trade them for anything.

[southpaw121505]

Well early in the season and going to by the eye test Hall is still flailing at outside sliders, and trying to pull them at that. He drives me crazy, he's so good going to right center yet he rarely tries to. He's out in front and pulling off of everything instead of letting the ball travel and going with it to right if need be.

[apirk]

If the Sox want an upgrade a 2B they would just bring up Beckham

[Never Outhustled]

Well early in the season and going to by the eye test Hall is still flailing at outside sliders, and trying to pull them at that.

I'm not seeing what your seeing at all. Hall has laid off balls, his swing looks quick again, and he's hitting line drives. His production backs up what I'm seeing, as he has a 1.017 OPS. He looks like the outstanding hitting he was in 2006-07, when he OPS'd 837 and 899.

 

Hall will never have a smooth swing, but this slimmed down, lasik enhanced version is a player I don't want to trade. We don't have a viable alternative at 3B, at least not yet.

 

Now if the Sox, after the season, want to deal a pitcher to get Cory Hart to replace FA to be Jermaine Dye, thats something we could talk about.

[southpaw121505]

Agree to disagree I guess. Kinda blows my mind that anyone can think that. I also can't believe someone from this site is using an ops as evidence after a week either.

 

You really dont see him trying to pull every pitch? Hart is doing exactly what you need to do with that pitch right now, going with it and driving it to right. Hall has that ability when he doesn't dive out on his front foot and try and yank eveything.

 

I strongly believe he will not have a good year with that approach. Nothing at all has shown me he's any different than last year. He is at his best driving the ball to right center and not selling out to try and get out in front of every pitch. He's limiting his plate coverage. He needs to let the ball travel and pound it to right if that's how he's being pitched. I am baffled that anyone with baseball/hitting knowledge would think his approach is sound right now.

[trwi7]

His production backs up what I'm seeing, as he has a 1.017 OPS. He looks like the outstanding hitting he was in 2006-07, when he OPS'd 837 and 899.

His production is almost all against lefties again.

 

He's hitting .167/.333/.250 vs righties with 6 strikeouts in 12 at bats.

 

I completely agree with southpaw. Hall is looking to pull every pitch and looks lost against righties.

[3Putt]

I agree with TooLiveBrew that we shouldn't be quick to jettison Rickie right now. He may finally be emerging as the ballplayer we hoped he might be. Also, we just don't have a prototypical leadoff hitter so until we do Rickie's the closest thing to it.

 

southpaw, when I read your initial note about Hall going to right I had to double check that your name wasn't Bill Schroeder. He's been harping for 2 1/2 years now about how Billy needs to take the outside pitch the other way to be successful. At a minimum it seems like we hear Schroeder's "You'll know Billy's hot when he starts hitting balls the other way" speech at least every other game. I know I've heard it at least 3 times this season. On the rare occasion like last night when Hall does hit a ball to right Schroeder gets so giddy I think he's going to fall out of the booth. You'd think Schroeder would have given up by now but I give him credit for hanging in there.

[southpaw121505]

I totally agree 3putt, he beats it to death, but he's absolutely right. When he does the other way pitchers are more likely to feel the need to come inside and thats when you can unload on pitches, but not low and outside sliders. It's so maddening with Hall because he really does have a beautiful stroke to right, when actually uses that approach. It's impossible to always decide what field to hit to, but its all about where you make contact in relation to the plate. It's nearly impossible to hit a low and away pitch hard with the contact point in front of the plate, thats when hes trying to pull and yank it. If you let it get deeper and make contact even with your body you can cover that outside pitch better. I know a lot of people know that, it just drives me crazy that our major league third baseman doesnt, or is just too stubborn to try and still hit homeruns.

 

Sorry if I'm a bit off topic, but I do think it relates. I think a quick scouting report from opposing GMs would make them want no part of Hall with that approach at the plate and salary.

[3Putt]

southpaw,

 

Occasionally another manager/coach will think they can fix a guy. That's the only way we'd get any value for Hall. Mike Maddux was able to fix a few pitchers at least for awhile so I guess it's possible. As you mention, Hall's contract is so big that it's doubtful another team will take the risk. I've been one of Hall's biggest critics because he really does seem to be capable but refuses to make the changes necessary to improve. His baserunning decline also sends a red flag that he's not making the effort. No way would I touch this guy.

[TooLiveBrew]

I've been one of Hall's biggest critics because he really does seem to be capable but refuses to make the changes necessary to improve.

 

I can't personally speak to this, but I know there have been several posters/posts from those claiming to have 'inside(-ish) access' stating that Hall is a very selfish player that is about the least coach-able of the current Brewers.

 

Hopefully it's clear enough that I think anyone should take that comment of mine with appropriate grains of salt, but there does seem to be some fire to that smoke.

[southpaw121505]

Make sense to me TLB. Like I said, he CAN go oppo, but not with the current approach.

[Tbadder]

I totally agree 3putt, he beats it to death, but he's absolutely right. When he does the other way pitchers are more likely to feel the need to come inside and thats when you can unload on pitches, but not low and outside sliders. It's so maddening with Hall because he really does have a beautiful stroke to right, when actually uses that approach. It's impossible to always decide what field to hit to, but its all about where you make contact in relation to the plate. It's nearly impossible to hit a low and away pitch hard with the contact point in front of the plate, thats when hes trying to pull and yank it. If you let it get deeper and make contact even with your body you can cover that outside pitch better. I know a lot of people know that, it just drives me crazy that our major league third baseman doesnt, or is just too stubborn to try and still hit homeruns.

 

Sorry if I'm a bit off topic, but I do think it relates. I think a quick scouting report from opposing GMs would make them want no part of Hall with that approach at the plate and salary.

 

I feel the same way about Braun. He drives me crazy. You see him trying to battle it, knowing full well he can't hit that low and away stuff, but in the end he gives in. Kinda like a junkie. I wonder if they share bats like addicts share needles?

[3Putt]

I've been one of Hall's biggest critics because he really does seem to be capable but refuses to make the changes necessary to improve.

 

I can't personally speak to this, but I know there have been several posters/posts from those claiming to have 'inside(-ish) access' stating that Hall is a very selfish player that is about the least coach-able of the current Brewers.

 

Hopefully it's clear enough that I think anyone should take that comment of mine with appropriate grains of salt, but there does seem to be some fire to that smoke.

I'm not a big fan of so called insiders because they're just not reliable. My issues with Hall come from personal observation. For instance, he turns triples into doubles by not hustling. Last year he started running harder once Branyan came up and finally got his first triple in two years. Early in his career he was a decent base stealer but apparently stopped studying pitchers and/or doing the work required to at least maintain decent numbers. Heck, even Carlos Lee could swipe an occasional base by paying attention to the pitcher's tendencies.

[logan82]

Early in his career he was a decent base stealer

 

Hall has never been a good base stealer. He has had only 2 years in his entire career when he had a 70% or better success rate. He has spent most of his career, including the minors, around 50% or worse.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm not a big fan of so called insiders because they're just not reliable

 

Based on what? You have nothing to back this up... I was referring to people that have proven to have insider access... not wackos that make random claims.

[TheCrew07]

not wackos that make random claims.

That sir, made me laugh out loud, well played.