How long of a leash would you give Suppan?

[DonMoney4Mgr]

Ennder wrote:

In the big picture I wouldn't worry about a single start if I were Macha and Suppan threw the ball well in general so this game wouldn't make me even start to think about making a change. He has to start walking guys or just having terrible location for me to start considering it.

Consider it.

[Ennder]

How many of you guys think that with Macha - the leash will be literally one more start like he had in SF or this evening? Is that realistic? I like how Macha has tried new things and been pretty good with the hook so far... but its a high priced vet. I personally want to throw up when Suppan does what he did tonight....

A start like he had vs the Giants won't do much imo, he was locating well he just had a lot of balls go through for hits. A start like tonight is going to make Macha think about things for sure though, he threw more balls than strikes and there is no way Suppan can succeed like that.

[markedman5]

I can't even imagine how mad I would get as a manager when my pitchers would nibble themselves into trouble against patient hitters and then not be able to throw it over the plate when they absolutely had to.

 

The sad part is this is pretty much the kind of pitching performance I expect out of Soup and Julio.

[GormanHarvey]

Macha does not seem like the type of guy to me that will swallow Suppan's performance tonight easily. I agree with davego - the next start for him is going to be crucial and could be his demise if he can't throw strikes again. My guess is he will throw strikes but they will be total meat and he will get pounded

[treego]

How long of a leash would you give Suppan?

Well, Suppan has an affinity for walks; a leash does seem appropriate. However, I wouldn't worry about a leash; I'd let this dog run free and hope he never comes back.

[BadgerFan]

What are you guys talking about? Didn't you hear, "Sup' pitched great."

 

Having those flashbacks again!

[Timmy1310]

I just got back from the game and man 7 and 2/3 innings 10 runs and how many walks has he given up? I didn't get to see the replay on tv a lot of the balls looked questionable from the stands I might be wrong but I can't see him deserving another start. Our bullpen is gonna get mangles and be in shambles by the All Star break at this rate. I'm not sure we have a better option really, but why not give a young kid a few starts see if he can't get a decent ERA under 12? LOL Is that too much to ask for ?

[rousieboy]

Suppan's problems go back to last year as mentioned by some very nervous JSOnline columnists...DeFelice is going to give you a better chance of winning games if Suppan pitches like he has his last 5 starts (dating back to last year vs. PHI and so on).

 

I think Macha will give him another go, I think that Macha, Ash, and GM DM are already talking replacements. I think I am glad that Ned Yost is no longer the manager as Suppan would make 33 starts regardless in '09.

[endaround]

Suppan has at least one more start. If he has control issues he maybe DL'd for Hoffman. But that only a temporary thing and he'll be back in 2 weeks.

[Never Outhustled]

The maddening thing is that Suppan only gave up 2 hits. He had some really good Cubs hitters taking some ugly swings, but he still refused to throw strikes.

[Fatter than Joey]

If he has control issues he maybe DL'd for Hoffman.

 

Suppan said his elbow issues are no longer a concern -- I know he could be "injured" though.

 

I guess the question I have, is if Suppan loses his spot (in the near future), is DiFelice stretched out enough to make a start? or even McClung for that matter. I'd almost rather see DiFelice in AAA getting some starts under his belt.

[Invader3K]

After being at the game last night, I'm "done" with Suppan. I'm done defending the guy and defending his signing. He's been something like 0-8 with a 10.00+ ERA since last Labor Day. I'm just going to assume every game he starts is a guaranteed loss from here on out.

 

Yesterday was one of those losses where there wasn't much we could do. We got robbed of a grand slam, and the Cubs made a couple other key defensive plays. Still, this "starting pitcher" is going four innings and eating up our bullpen more than he's "eating innings." Disgusting.

[fondybrewfan]

Macha did look pretty pissed on those camera shots in the dugout. I don't think Suppan carries the same veteran mystic in the Macha clubhouse than he did in the Yost clubhouse. If one of the middling AAA starters has a good first couple of starts, I think Macha/Melvin will have a much easier job just sticking Suppan in the pen, but right now there are no other options.

 

Suppan has just been absolutely pathetic these first two games, the Crew isn't going to win too many games when they constantly have to play catch up.

[kramnoj]

He's been something like 0-8 with a 10.00+ ERA since last Labor Day. I'm just going to assume every game he starts is a guaranteed loss from here on out.

 

Braun's OPS is below .661 since last September. How long do you expect that to continue?

[Invader3K]

Well. we all know Braun wasn't that great last September, but that was due to an injury. Maybe Suppan was hurt as well...but as far as you can compare a position player with a pitcher, Braun has already done better this season than Suppan has.

[craigharmann]

That was outrageously awful last night. As I said in the chat, I think Cappy right now would be better than Soup. That was one so difficult to watch. If the Brewers want to go anywhere this year, Soup has to be out of the rotation. I'd say give up whatever is necessary for Peavy, if that's even a possibility.

[Invader3K]

Well, if Capuano was physically capable of pitching right now, I'd be all about bringing him up.

[naivin]

I have no issue at this point in saying as soon as there is a reasonable alternative, go ahead and make a change. Obviously, that alternative would likely present itself in the form of McClung when Hoffman returns, but who knows? I guess I can't really think of many other options.

[RobertR]

I don't think there's a reasonable alternative yet. I can't say how disappointed I am though with an outing like yesterday's from a veteran pitcher. It's intolerable for that to continue much longer. And really no excuse after having all of the offseason and spring training to be ready.

 

I suspect that there has to be something physically wrong with Suppan, especially considering his velocity. Despite revisionism, Suppan was 10 - 7 with a 4.49 ERA through August 30th last year, and I'd take that type of performance again. What we have now is completely worthless. Putting him on the DL and collecting the insurance looks a whole lot preferable to what we're getting now.

 

Robert

[joepepsi]

He's really disappointing, but it's too early to tell if he's lost it or just struggling with control right now. It's true last year his K rate decreased and his BB rate increased slightly, but it's hard to know if that's a trend either, or just the result of a nagging injury. If he continues to walk 6 a game, they'll have to find a different option. My guess is he'll pitch a little better his next start.

[Ennder]

Suppan was 10 - 7 with a 4.49 ERA through August 30th last year, and I'd take that type of performance again

 

To be fair that was built on a 5-0 August with a 3.00 ERA. A month in which he allowed 8 HRs but got away with it because of a .214 BABIP against. Suppan at this point is completely at the whim of BABIP. He is going to give up his extra base hits but what he can't do is BB guys. If he starts to BB 4 per 9 his career is over as a starter.

[RobertR]

Suppan was 10 - 7 with a 4.49 ERA through August 30th last year, and I'd take that type of performance again

 

To be fair that was built on a 5-0 August with a 3.00 ERA. A month in which he allowed 8 HRs but got away with it because of a .214 BABIP against. Suppan at this point is completely at the whim of BABIP. He is going to give up his extra base hits but what he can't do is BB guys. If he starts to BB 4 per 9 his career is over as a starter.

I don't believe in discarding stats, lucky or not. No doubt that there was some luck involved in that August record and ERA. In general though, I tend to think that things tend to balance out and there's probably stretches during 2008 where we could say Suppan was unlucky. And, lucky or not, Suppan was averaging 6 IP a start and probably had a somewhat reasonable FIP. That's a lot better than we've gotten out of the last month and a half. He's had one decent start out of his last 8 appearances, including the post season, and that's a ratio that has to turn around quickly.

 

Right now, my main concern is that Suppan just doesn't seem to have the stuff to compete at the big league level. And I don't know if it's reasonable to expect it to recover. That's a lot more worrying to me than the fact that he's had two bad outings to start the season. I'm not concerned about Tim Lincecum, for example.

 

Robert

[brewdude15]

My leash has officially broken.

[endaround]

Robert-

 

Suppan was also lucjy at that point because he gave up a ton on unearned runs. He had 11 unearned runs in the first half of the season

[kramnoj]

Suppan was also lucjy at that point because he gave up a ton on unearned runs. He had 11 unearned runs in the first half of the season

 

Suppan had 12 unearned runs all season. Parra had 10. If Suppan's 12 is a ton, how much do Parra's 10 weigh?