Phillies: Possible Partners

[chinabob99]

Freddy Garcia is done for the season, pending a second opinion.

 

www.beerleaguer.com/beerl..._too_.html

 

Since they've moved Myers to the Pen, that means that 2 of their 5 starting pitchers on opening day are on the DL and out of the rotation. I don't know much about their farm system. What could we get for Bush or Vargas?

[paul253]

What could we get for Bush or Vargas?

an open rotation spot for Villanueva?

[dadofandrew]

Why yes, I certainly want to trade a pitcher without even knowing what to ask for in return.

[Brian the Automator]

[ Why yes, I certainly want to trade a pitcher without even knowing what to ask for in return. ]

 

Al, he asked about their farm system and options on who the Brewers might be able to get in return. This would go against our "Disrespect and/or condescension towards fellow posters" rule.

[dadofandrew]

"Something in the farm system" doesn't seem like having any idea what to ask for.

 

However, a thousand apologies for inadvertantly breaking the rules of the forum.

[Big Reed]

I'm not sure about their farm system, but the phillies never did trade Rowand. They also have a young outfielder named Bourn who is a rookie this year. he has speed and is a pretty good base stealer. His elevation to the big leagues could make Rowand or Victorino expendable.

 

Something to think about- Tom Gordon will return next month. he might be a nice guy to rent for 3 months and then allow him to leave. I don't know what his contract situation is. the brewers could swap vargus for Gordon without too much grief.

 

or the brewers could hope to strike lightning in the bottle twice and try to pry away old timer jamie moyer just like they acquired Sutton. I doubt the phillies would ask for much in return for Moyer.

 

or they could try to bring back an old favorite in wes helms. it looks like he's lost his starting job to Dobbs.

[JoeHova]

Tom Gordon (assuming he looks to be healthy) and an ok-good pitching prospect (maybe Josh Outman to match Will Inman?) for Bush or Vargas and Graffanino works quite well for me.

 

I like the idea of trading with the Phils. They have some gaping holes, but also an ok farm system and a few ML pieces they don't really need.

[Brian the Automator]

[ "Something in the farm system" doesn't seem like having any idea what to ask for. ]

 

He didn't. He was hoping someone else would jump in and complete the idea.

[chinabob99]

I could have been more clear, sorry for any confusion. I was asking if anyone was familiar enough with the Phils farm system to know what we could get for either Vargas or Bush, thereby opening up a spot for Carlos or Gallardo. I didn't mean it to come off as "We must trade Vargas or Bush right now, to the Phils, for whatever scrap they have laying around."

[qrk10000]

Chinabob99, you don't need to apologize. You didn't do anything wrong. I think that you may have identified a realistic suitor for Bush or Vargas too. In response to your question, I wonder if the Brewers could snag Yoel Hernandez or Mike Zagurski and a lower level prospect for either Bush or Vargas (preferably Vargas)? They both seem to have decent stuff and are having a pretty good years out of the pen. I like that it would allow Gallardo to move into the rotation too. Does anyone know anything about either of these guys?

[dadofandrew]

I don't think they have any desire to open a spot for either CV or Yo, and even if they did, Vargas and Bush need to be around in case someone get hurt.

[JoeHova]

So, the Brewers should now stockpile starters at the expense of other pieces of the team? Eventually Bush and Vargas will be gone. Why not deal one now in order to fill a hole? The Brewers have 8 starters, why not trade one of the worst ones if you can get something good?

[dadofandrew]

Joe, what are you looking for? The IF is set short and long-term. Hart and Hall are also set...so that leaves LF and C...if you think a major upgrade is coming at one of those two spots, I hope you are correct, but I have my doubts.

 

You could look to improve the position player depth, but that's not as important as pitching depth, and to be honest, Counsell/Graffy/Mench/Gross is about as solid veteran depth as you can get.

[JoeHova]

I'm hoping for a proven bullpen arm at this point. Tom Gordon has had 6 straight excellent years in the pen. He's injured this year (sore rotator cuff), but is supposed to be back in a week or two. If he's healthy, he's a guy who could really help shore up the bullpen. If you think he could be had for less than Vargas or Bush, that would indeed be ideal, but I'm not sure that would be the case. I think he's even signed for another year after this one.

 

I think a healthy Tom Gordon would be a much better 8th inning guy than Turnbow. Gordon is as dominant but less prone to getting rocked. He's old, but still quite good. I'd love to get him and an ok prospect for Bush or Vargas and filler.

[qrk10000]

Al, I disagree. Our starters may be set for the short term and long term, but we certainly could use some infield depth at AAA. Counsell and Graffy are stopgaps right now but I would not depend on either beyond on this season. That pretty much leaves just Vinny Rottino as main backup at AAA. The outfield needs help too. I agree that Hall and Hart have spots locked up, but what about beyond them? And again, we certainly could use some solid depth at AAA. I don't think we need to add another starter, especially with Carlos and Yo waiting in the wings (and Chris Oxspring an option at AAA). That brings us to where I think we need the most help: the bullpen. I don't know much about the guys in the Phillies' bullpen, but the two I mentioned above looked intriguing. If we could land one of those arms and some minor league help for Bush or Vargas and then replace them with Yo or Carlos, I think we could be potentially be in a better situation.

[aracko]

I am getting a little out of control here but what about Capuano and Weeks for Chase Utley?

[JoeHova]

Chase Utley was much, much worse than Weeks is at the same age. I'd rather hold onto him and hope for improvement than give him up and throw in Capuano for a guy who is 4 years older and closer to free agency.

[dadofandrew]

I would also like to see a AAA middle infielder added for depth, as Crabbe and Barnwell are pretty unaweinspiring.

[danzig6767]

Chase Utley was much, much worse than Weeks is at the same age. I'd rather hold onto him and hope for improvement than give him up and throw in Capuano for a guy who is 4 years older and closer to free agency.

 

I'd trade Weeks and Capuano for Utley without question so long as Attanasio is willing to keep payrolls at least around 80 million.Utley the last two years and this year

 

2005--28 HR/105 RBI .291/.376/.540/.915

2006--32 HR/102 RBI .309/.379/.527/.06

2007--.313/.393/.566/.960

 

On top of that,he's signed the next 6yrs at about 12 million per,that's a bargain in todays baseball for the best secondbaseman in the game.Weeks is a great talent,but his wrist issues are concerning and i question if he'll ever post a .900 OPS season,Utley is on three straight years of it.Capuano is a good starting pitcher,but a guy who will start getting expensive and not good enough to make me shy away from aquiring a proven stud like Utley with a team friendly contract.

 

Then again,i can't see the Phillies agreeing to a deal like this for Utley.He hits like a very good corner OF playing secondbase.For pretend though,check out this lineup

 

Hart

Hardy

Utley

Fielder

Braun

Hall

Jenkins

Estrada