Villanueva in Macha's doghouse

[GAME05]

i don't think Villy is necessarily our best reliever, and he's definitely tabbed for a far different role this year as opposed to his long-relief roles previously. the comments by Macha puts some more pressure on Villy that he's going to need to handle to hold up in the 8th if that's where he's still slated to be. I'd be fine if McClung were in the 8th, and who knows about Riske, either. and saying this sort of stuff to the media adds a bit of pressure to Villy where he wouldn't have normally had it in Spring. Villy really hasn't had to deal with a lot of high-pressure situations before for the most part.

[JohnBriggs12]

so you are saying he should pick on the players you don't like JohnBriggs? Seems like that was the point of bringing up Cameron.

 

None of us really know the whole story about what happens on the field. Maybe CV just isn't giving it much effort since it is spring training, who knows. CV hasn't looked good, hard to have a problem with the manager admitting it for me.

 

No if he's going to pick on players individually (which no manager should do in spring training), he should start with the stars, not the grunts (no offense to CV. Actually my including Cameron here was more of a compliment to him though I can understand why you'd think otherwise. The same applies to Fielder or Braun. Ask any old Packer who Lombardi was hardest on and it was Paul Hornung because Lombardi thought Hornung was the most talented player on his roster. Ask any successful high school coach, and they'll tell you that to get players' respect you have to be harder on the players with the most talent. That gets everyone's attention.

[Thurston Fluff]

Villy really hasn't had to deal with a lot of high-pressure situations before for the most part.

 

I tend to think he has done enough of that to show he can. He did pitch in the post season in two close games. Don't know how much more high pressure situation is a reliever gonna have in his career?

[logan82]

IP/pitches/runs

1/16/0

1/7/0

1/10/3

2/10/0

2/14/0

1.1/36/5

 

Two outings where he gave up any runs. 5 runs once and 3 runs once. only one outing that was really bad. Link

 

I think Macha is overreacting, and we all might be also. He seems to be just thinking out loud. Not something that is good for somebody in his position. He might have already talked to Villanueva though. Like I said with Yost, "don't try to read to much into press conferences." Of course that's what I have been doing here. My bad.

[TheCrew07]

Do we know for sure those pitch counts are accurate? Would it be to much to ask for real games to start before we start bashing Macha? I have a hard time getting worked up about anything that happens in Spring Training outside of major injuries.

[trwi7]

I think Macha is probably just overreacting to Villanueva giving up five runs last night. Although I'd love to see where he got his pitch counts are in the 20s. The game log that FtJ linked to and now that logan has posted it shows that he's gone over 20 pitches once, yesterday.

 

Before yesterday, he's averaged 1.4 innings pitched and has averaged 8.14 pitches per inning. Really don't know what Macha is looking at.

[homer]

JohnBriggs12 wrote:

No they don't. Any book on managing people will tell you not to call out people in public much less in the press. This applies in sports as well as business.

You cannot be serious. You've never seen a coach take a shot at a player's performance in a post game presser? Bill Parcells called Terry Glenn a woman for crying out loud.

[trwi7]

Do we know for sure those pitch counts are accurate?

Actually, looking at some other game logs, you may be right. They don't look accurate.

 

For example, Bush's game log has him at 75 total pitches in all of his spring starts and only 25 in his last start. If he's only stretched out to 25 pitches, we're in trouble. Gallardo's at 62 pitches total in his starts and supposedly threw 24 strikes out of 24 pitches in his last start.

[pete]

As to pitch counts Macha could also be referring to an B-game, minor league camp or Australia exhibition performances. Its hard to judge the comments by a couple written lines. Anything is better than Yost's robotic "he'll be fine."

[Fatter than Joey]

I think Macha is probably just overreacting to Villanueva giving up five runs last night. Although I'd love to see where he got his pitch counts are in the 20s. The game log that FtJ linked to and now that logan has posted it shows that he's gone over 20 pitches once, yesterday.

 

Right, I guess I don't have a problem with Macha's reaction, as much as I am wondering actually how bad the performances by Villy actually were. I think Macha was reacting primarily to the game yesterday. I don't think Villy has been that bad....

 

Would it be to much to ask for real games to start before we start bashing Macha?

 

It's spring training for all of us. Game 1 counts just as much Game 162, and if we don't get into regular season bashing form in time for Game 1, it will be opportunity lost.

[homer]

If you look just at Macha's quotes and not at Witrado's conjecture, it's probably easier to swallow:

 

"Villanueva has had one good outing all spring as far as I'm concerned," Macha said. "The other outings he's pitched just a single inning and been mid to high 20s with his (pitch count)."

 

"I'm going to talk to him tomorrow and talk to Billy and see what our plan of attack is with him," Macha said. "He hasn't had too many good outings this spring."

 

"Does that go to (Todd) Coffey? Does that go to (Seth) McClung?" Macha said. "We're going to have to figure it out. He's got a bit of a track record of getting people out so we're going to have to figure out what's going on."

 

 

I'm guessing Witrado asked him who would close if Villy was ineffective and Macha answered appropriately. He then went on to compliment Villy by saying he's got a track record of getting people out. I think this is much ado about nada.

[Never Outhustled]

It doesn't bother me that Villy won't start the year as the 8th inning guy because I don't like having anyone strictly as the 8th inning guy. The 8th isn't more important than the 7th or 6th. An 8th inning guy gets inconsistent work. He doesn't pitch if the team isn't winning games, and then gets worked like a dog when the team is hot.

 

Most of the relievers in this pen will give us similar production, and they should just be used in rotation to keep everyone sharp. If everyone gets consistent innings, and avoids working back to back days as much as possible, we'll get better collective production, much like we did down the stretch last year. If a pitcher gets cold, he can be used in a mop up role until he gets straightened out, and the other 5 can rotate ahead of Hoffman.

 

What scares me about Villy so far is that when a pitcher as talented as him struggles, its usually a precursor to injury.

[trwi7]

Tucson, Ariz. - Carlos Villanueva, who has struggled this spring as the anticipated set-up guy for Trevor Hoffman at the back of the bullpen, will get a start against the Giants on Sunday at Maryvale. That day is Jeff Suppan's normal day, so he will start a minor-league game to let Villaueva get in the "A" game.

Manager Ken Macha's reasoning for allowing Villanueva to get a start is to help build up is arm, but also to do it in a way Villanueva is accumstomed to. As a starter his entire career, at least coming into spring trainings, Villanueva has always prepared himself a certain way. This year, as a reliever from the start, Villanueva's program has been different and he hasn't been sharp.

I spoke with him this morning and he said he just didn't feel crisp with his pitches and that he understands the concern of Macha, although the first-year manager has given Villanueva the benefit of the doubt by pointing to his major-league track record of being able to get hitters out.

Yesterday after Villanueva gave up a walk-off homer and threw 37 pitches in 1.1 innings, Macha said he hasn't been impressed by the right-hander and that as far as he was concerned, Villanueva has had only one good outing this spring.

You can read a lot more on this in tomorrow's paper, with Villanueva not blaming Macha for having some doubts about him and Macha reiterating that if Villanueva can't handle the set-up role, he'll have to find someone else who will.

Link

[GormanHarvey]

Sounds like some pretty sound reasoning from Macha to me. And it appears that Villa is much more understanding of how Macha is handling it than some of the people posting in this thread

[PeaveyFury]

No they don't. Any book on managing people will tell you not to call out people in public much less in the press. This applies in sports as well as business.

 

Doesn't Tony Larussa do it almost constantly every single season?

[sgtcluels]

It makes me feel very dirty that I agree with Homer. I may have to take some meth, and scrub my skin till I feel clean again.

 

If Villy isn't performing (which he isn't) then I don't have much of a problem with Macha calling him out. It's not like he said he's going to DFA him, it's more that he needs to protect the club as a whole over protecting a little bruised ego. I like it, I grew very tired of Yosts hand holding and coddling where it became a hindrance to the club. You have to remember, Macha is also feeling out the club, he's obviously trying to get across that things will not be the same. Don't perform, you sit.

 

I like it.

 

PS - Witrado wrote the article correct? So who knows how accurate it is anyways http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[pete]

Did he even call him out?

[rluzinski]

I agree that Macha's comments were pretty darn mild. had he called him out, however, justifying it for having a few bad minor league innings would have been weak, IMO.

[1992casey]

Did he even call him out?

 

Yeah, really. I don't see any calling out here. I see an observation and an indication of concern. Plus, the followup blog entry indicates that Macha is following up with a positive "plan of attack," something the first blog entry indicated he wanted to do.

[silversurferr]

We are in trouble if Villy is a "star" player on our team. He gets way too much attention for a slightly better than average middle reliever or set-up man.

[Tbadder]

Macha is a plain spoken guy. That's both a strength and a weakness, but more strength in the end in my book. If indeed the follow up to criticism is a positive approach with a struggling player then I think a lot of good will come of it. For now, I think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt. It's also my impression that Villy is mentally tough on the mound, so why couldn't he take a little criticism from the boss?

[fondybrewfan]

We are in trouble if Villy is a "star" player on our team. He gets way too much attention for a slightly better than average middle reliever or set-up man.

I don't think there is such a thing as a middle relief "star" but when your manager is having issues with our #1 set up guy it certainly deserves attention, especially since going to camp he seemed to be the obvious choice for that role. As evidenced by Marmol with the Cubs last year, your 7th/8th inning game is arguably more important than your closer.

[Invader3K]

Well, while I still don't fault Macha for what he said...I would say Villanueva is definitely an important component of the bullpen this season. He is one of the few guys who isn't either old, coming off an injury, or a scrap heap reclamation project (not that we have as many of those this year). He is probbaly one of the most versatile pitchers on the team as well.

[cwolf2012]

"1/16/0

1/7/0

1/10/3

2/10/0

2/14/0 "

 

-------------------

 

As a note, those pitch counts are inaccurate. The box scores only reflect what the result of the plate appearance was, and not the actual total number of pitches. A walk on 12 pitches would be scored as 4 pitches, A strikeout on 8 pitches would be marked as 3 pitches, and a hit is marked as one single strike. It comes from the fact that it's spring training, and it's not necessary on a mass-media scoreboard to log every pitch. I'm sure the actual counts are out there somewhere.

 

On another note, think about the 2nd to last outing there. 6 batters, 10 pitches. How plausible is that, really? He would be putting the ball in play on the first pitch half the time.

[Thurston Fluff]

Bill Parcells called Terry Glenn a woman for crying out loud.

 

i get what you mean but this is not the best example. It was in response to a question about Glenn being drafted. Parcells was mad that the Pats drafted Glenn instead of who Parcells wanted. At the point in which Parcells said the infamous "Who is she" line they he had yet to meet him much less have an opinion about his perfromance. Parcells later admitted that it was uncalled for and not at all fair to Glenn.

 

 

Doesn't Tony Larussa do it almost constantly every single season?

 

He seems to but I guess I'm not sure why getting into peeing wars with players like Rolen make him a good manager. It appears to me it only makes him lose them via trade and the team sucks more because of it. Pinnella does it as well so there is some merit to it but i tend to think it is a short lived strategy. Sooner or later players get tired of it or the manager does it to the wrong person. Personally I like leaders in any walk of life who treat their wards with respect. I do not think Macha crossed the line with his remarks. I think it was more off the cuff comments than criticism but it should have been thought out before he said anything. In the end the players will get used to any manager's style and know his real intentions/meaning behind what sometimes will be less than perfect wording. Learning is a two way street.