Villanueva in Macha's doghouse

[JohnBriggs12]

Apparently a few rough outings this spring has Macha looking at other setup options. Granted Macha doesn't know Villanueva, but in my opinion he's overreacting based on the vagaries of pitching in Arizona. I would think Villy's track record including 11 up and 11 down in playoffs last October should hold a little more weight than some meaningless spring games.. The last thing I want my key guys doing is pressing in spring training.

 

Macha not impressed by Villanueva

 

(added link --1992)

[hurricanecrush]

From the article:

 

"Villanueva has had one good outing all spring as far as I'm concerned," Macha said. "The other outings he's pitched just a single inning and been mid- to high 20s with his (pitch count)."

 

"I'm going to talk to him (Wednesday) and talk to Billy and see what our plan of attack is with him," Macha said. "He hasn't had too many good outings this spring."

 

Macha wasn't quoted as saying he was looking at other options; that seemed to be an editorial comment by Witrado. Even if Macha did say that, I don't have a problem with it and actually prefer it to sugar coating it. I wasn't a Yost hater like many on this board but I thought he babied his players too much at times and made silly comments about how this player or that player was playing great when everyone in the world could see that they were sucking.

[JohnBriggs12]

I disagree hurricanecrush. Villanueva is now a veteran pitcher. He's helped this team get into the playoffs. He should have the luxury of some bad outings in Arizona. Look around the league. There's plenty of veteran relievers with ERA's similar to CV's whose managers aren't singling them out. David Riske has an ERA of 12.00. Why not call him out too?

[Invader3K]

Veteran pitcher? No. He's 25 and has less than three seasons of MLB experience.

 

I have no problem with Macha telling it like it is. No one is stepping up to take the final bullpen rolls. So far that includes Carlos V.

[Thurston Fluff]

He started out slow last year as well. He has been around long enough now to get judged on his whole body of work vs a few spring games. I don't think he should just be handed the set up role and let him work his way back to his usual level of play though. If he is a slow starter let him take less important spots to play in until he is where he needs to be. I have little doubt he is going to be an important player in the pen like he has been. I just am not sure if it will be April 7th or May 7th when he steps up. If it's May 7th then let him take over the setup role then. Why suck in the setup role before then if there are alternatives?

[Ennder]

The setup guy is about the 15th most important player on the team and the next best RP is like the 16th most important so no big deal to me. If Villanueva doesn't like it he can just pitch better and get the job back.

[azcheesehead]

If you've seen Villy live in a game at spring training, you would know that the comments are deserved. I don't care if you're Sandy Koufax. The stuff he is throwing over the plate right now could be hit by a good high schooler. He's up in the zone, not as consistent with changing speeds and looks pretty straight to me. That isn't a good combo!!!

[JohnBriggs12]

Veteran pitcher? No. He's 25 and has less than three seasons of MLB experience.

 

I have no problem with Macha telling it like it is. No one is stepping up to take the final bullpen rolls. So far that includes Carlos V.

116 major league games. 276 major league innings. He's certainly no rookie, and that makes him a veteran. But yes, he's still young and still getting established to an extent. Which is even more the reason not to single him out for criticism in the media. You want to criticize him? Do it to his face behind closed doors. The bottom line is the Brewers need Villanueva. Villanueva is a comptetive guy. Remember the incident with Pujols last year? He doesn't need Macha telling the press he needs to step it up.

 

I have always judged coaches and managers by who they choose to single out for criticism. The good ones single out the most talented players on the team. I especially have a problem with Macha's wording. He's quoted as saying "This guy here Villanueva...." You refer a player on your team "this guy here.."? That's not how you handle players in my opinion.

 

Yost was a terrible manager strategy wise and I said so often. But he handled his players the right way. Macha better be a good strategist because this isn't the way you handle players.

 

How about picking on $10 million man Mike Cameron for hitting .208 with 9 K's this spring instead of a guy making just over minimum?

[JoeHova]

Seems pretty classless by Macha. I see why Doug only gave him a 2 year deal. It doesn't seem like he'll even need that long to alienate all of his good players. I wonder who the Brewers will be looking to bring in to manage in 2010?

[JohnBriggs12]

If you've seen Villy live in a game at spring training, you would know that the comments are deserved. I don't care if you're Sandy Koufax. The stuff he is throwing over the plate right now could be hit by a good high schooler. He's up in the zone, not as consistent with changing speeds and looks pretty straight to me. That isn't a good combo!!!

But it's spring training and there's still almost 3 weeks until the season starts and it's Arizona where lots of good pitchers struggle from time to time. I saw a game he pitched earlier vs. the Cubs. Villanueva's never had eye popping stuff. His put away pitches are his slider and his change. He's having some command issues with his fastball and he's not found his good slider yet. The appearence before yesterday he was fine.

 

Suppan's been awful one start and fine the next. That's the way it goes out there. If you judge your pitching staff by how well they do in Arizona, Chris Narveson should have been the Brewer ace in 2008 instead of a AAA guy with a 5+ ERA.

[azcheesehead]

How about picking on $10 million man Mike Cameron for hitting .208 with 9 K's this spring instead of a guy making just over minimum?

I have no problem with him calling anyone out. It isn't like he's calling out someone who doesn't deserve it. I think he would be justified if he did call out Cameron. However, if we wanted to use your verteran status, we could say that Cameron is relied on heavily for his defense and his locker room presence. Not as much at the plate.

[azcheesehead]

JohnBriggs12 wrote:

 

Suppan's been awful one start and fine the next. That's the way it goes out there. If you judge your pitching staff by how well they do in Arizona, Chris Narveson should have been the Brewer ace in 2008 instead of a AAA guy with a 5+ ERA.

I totally agree with you on this. However, when you watch him pitch it looks like something more in my opinion. I really hope I am wrong. I like Villy and want him to do well. But I don't think Macha is wrong here and I think he's trying to press some buttons and light a fire under his butt. All good coaches do it. Villy is a pro and he should be able to handle it.

[patrickgpe]

i think his "pondering" out loud of who will get the 8th, could really rub some players the wrong way. Just like George Karl, him outing people via the media really only works so long and can really cause players to shut him out.

[Ennder]

so you are saying he should pick on the players you don't like JohnBriggs? Seems like that was the point of bringing up Cameron.

 

None of us really know the whole story about what happens on the field. Maybe CV just isn't giving it much effort since it is spring training, who knows. CV hasn't looked good, hard to have a problem with the manager admitting it for me.

[Invader3K]

Well, at any rate, the message is pretty clear...this isn't Ned Yost still at the helm, and always defending guys in the media. When everyone sees a guy is struggling, Macha is at least going to acknowledge it. Players had better adjust, or they're going to be in for a long season. I personally like the new attitude, as this isn't a bunch of rookies who need to be coddled anymore.

[brewmann04]

I agree as long as Ken is fair when he calls out players who he feel are not performing.I agree this guy is not your Ned Yost and neither is his staff.

[Bankjob]

This is all about Motivation. Some players are motivated by themselves, some need to hear it privately, and some need to be called out in front of an audience. It is up to the manager to figure out which motivational style works for each of his players. If he thinks this is what it will take to light a fire under Charlie, then it is his call to make.

[giffted1]

I really hope Macha doesn't get into the habit of calling out players based on ~8 innings. The purpose of spring training is to get guys ready for the regular season and make roster decisions on the fringe players. Villaneuva having a rough spring shouldn't mean he's demoted to being the long man in the pen just like Counsell pounding the ball in spring shouldn't mean he starts the season batting third in the lineup.

[Fatter than Joey]

"Villanueva has had one good outing all spring as far as I'm concerned," Macha said. "The other outings he's pitched just a single inning and been mid- to high 20s with his (pitch count)."

 

I don't think Macha is good at counting -- look at Villy's gamelog (NP= number of pitches)

 

Villy Game Log

 

First of all he has 3 multi-inning appearances... so Macha seems bad at counting appearances...

 

He has never been in the mid to high 20s for a 1 inning appearance... so Macha seems bad at counting pitches

 

I could be missing something -- and I hope that I am -- but Macha is flat out incorrect, unless I am missing something.

[jwill535]

Macha is just generalizing like all of us do. Its just an easier way of saying, "the kid is pitching like crap and he isnt earning the spot that he was given." Before we all rip on Macha, we need to remember that he has been around him for the last two months and conversed with Castro who has been around him for years, so they are going to know his personality in and out and know what it takes to get to him. None of us here know CV or his personality so it is unfair to critizize how Macha handles certain players.

[Thurston Fluff]

None of us here know CV or his personality so it is unfair to critizize how Macha handles certain players.

 

maybe we don't but we did see how well he did the last couple years with a very different way of being handled. If he was doing well the other way what need is there to find a different way of motivating him?

 

This is all about Motivation. Some players are motivated by themselves, some need to hear it privately, and some need to be called out in front of an audience. It is up to the manager to figure out which motivational style works for each of his players. If he thinks this is what it will take to light a fire under Charlie, then it is his call to make.

 

He's been around them all of a month. I don't know how much he can really know about what motivates any of his players at this point in time. This has little to nothing to do with his thinking CV needs this type of motivation. It has to do with this manager's style in general.

 

 

Well, at any rate, the message is pretty clear...this isn't Ned Yost still at the helm, and always defending guys in the media. When everyone sees a guy is struggling, Macha is at least going to acknowledge it. Players had better adjust, or they're going to be in for a long season. I personally like the new attitude, as this isn't a bunch of rookies who need to be coddled anymore.

 

 

I am reserving judgment on Macha because, as someone who felt Ned was good, it would be very easy to hate the next guy simply because he replaced someone I liked. It is becoming harder for me because, in my mind, this is not the best way to get the most out of players. Just because Ned covered too much of the players backs doesn't mean doing the exact opposite is any better.

[homer]

Seems pretty classless by Macha.

Oh come on. These guys are professionals not little leaguers. It's quite possible Macha is just trying to light a fire under Villy's bum. Coaches do this all the time.

[logan82]

I was afraid something like this would happen when he said that he was coming into camp without looking at anything about the players. I still think that Villanueva is our best reliever. In the end though maybe this will lead to a more fluid bullpen where the hot hand gets the highest leverage innings against the heart of the order. Outside of Hoffman being designated as the closer of course.

 

None of us here know CV or his personality so it is unfair to critizize how Macha handles certain players.

 

The whole point of this board is to comment on what we think of various Brewer related news. I personally liked the "keep things in house" attitude of Yost.

[JohnBriggs12]

Seems pretty classless by Macha.

Oh come on. These guys are professionals not little leaguers. It's quite possible Macha is just trying to light a fire under Villy's bum. Coaches do this all the time.

No they don't. Any book on managing people will tell you not to call out people in public much less in the press. This applies in sports as well as business. Villanueva doesn't need anyone to "light a fire" under him. He's a competitor and an athlete. No professional athlete likes taking shots from his manager or coach in the press. What matters is how he pitches when the games count. He doesn't need to go out there and start overthrowing just to impress Macha in March.

 

Maybe Macha needs to go look at some tapes from 08.

[logan82]

He doesn't need to go out there and start overthrowing just to impress Macha.

 

Maybe he does, and I see that as a problem.

 

To be honest the most troubling thing to me is Macha's continued man love of Suppan. You almost get the feeling he likes older players.