Vargas Trade Proposal

[brewfanks]

Vargas to Royals for Joakim Soria (RHP) or Jimmy Gobble(LHP). I've been impressed with Soria this year, but Gobble is more proven and could be a nice situational lefty. The Royals obviously are looking for starters (John Thompson?). Then we can have Yo or Villy take the 5 spot and have the other as an injury replacement/ long reliever.

[hauser42]

Gobble might be an option, but I don't think they give up Soria at this point. They also have a couple of up and coming arms so they may not be too fast to pick up arms. Thompson is a fill in for this year so the young guys learn in the minors.

[Brian the Automator]

[ Vargas to Royals for Joakim Soria (RHP) or Jimmy Gobble(LHP). I've been impressed with Soria this year, but Gobble is more proven and could be a nice situational lefty. The Royals obviously are looking for starters (John Thompson?). Then we can have Yo or Villy take the 5 spot and have the other as an injury replacement/ long reliever. ]

 

This kind of trade is the opposite direction of the way the Royals would want to go, both age-wise and salary-wise. It's true that they could use more starting pitching, but if they're looking to be sellers, they could do better than Vargas.

[vacin8r]

The more I think about trading from our starting pitching depth the more I hate the types of deals we(including myself) have proposed. I wanted to find a deal out there in the recent past where a pitcher the level of vargas was traded(other than the one in which we acquired him as another quality arm in davis was included and i doubt we need to get back another starter). I really think Vargas should have similar trade value to what Jason Jennings had when he was traded to the astros, and he, along with a throw in, netted tavares, hirsch, and taylor buchholz from the astros. this is about the level of return I would be shooting for. I know we want a better LOOGY, but the value just isnt there. The only way I trade Vargas, or Bush, is if we can get a potential 2008 closer, and a near ready minor league outfielder. Something along the lines of Kasto and Cordero from the Nationals or Maybin and Zumaya from the tigers(i know theres no way the tigers make that deal even if we throw in a nice blocked prospect or 2 as well). I'd do it for Travis Buck and Huston Street of Oakland as well(again I probably wouldnt do that deal if I was Oakland without a quality throw in). We all like Broxton and he along with Either or Kemp would be nice too. All I'm really saying is be careful not to sell Vargas or Bush too short when it comes to trade value. Quality starting pitching that will not be a free agent at the end of the year is a nice commodity not to be sold for peanuts.

-Don

[Brian the Automator]

[ I really think Vargas should have similar trade value to what Jason Jennings had when he was traded to the astros ]

 

Jennings is a career 4.34 ERA pitcher (away from Coors Field). Vargas is a career 4.84 ERA pitcher.... I'd take Jennings in a heartbeat over Vargas.

[aracko]

Id like to take on Reggie Sanders, maybe Vargas for Sanders and Gobble.

 

- I really dont think Gobble is a good pitcher at all though.

[Jopal78]

http://webpages.acs.ttu.edu/charshey/pics/ThisThreadSucks.jpg

 

 

Seriously though, who is going to trade anything for Vargas? He isn't anything more than mediocre, and his salary is only going to increase from 2.5 million as he enters his last years of arbitration.

[vacin8r]

"Jennings is a career 4.34 ERA pitcher (away from Coors Field). Vargas is a career 4.84 ERA pitcher.... I'd take Jennings in a heartbeat over Vargas."

 

while il admit jennings is a better pitcher than vargas, its not by a lot. If you take jennings away from coors his numbers are era:4.309, whip:1.447 k/bb:1.672 k/9:6.181 and take vargas away from arizonas park his numbers are era:4.685 whip:1.470 k/bb:1.845 k/9:6.482. jennings home run numbers are also way better than vargas' even if you dont remove the unfavorable parks.

 

There is more to value though that just quality. Jennings is a FA after this year so to trade for jennings, you are trading for one year of a player before you have as much chance to sign him as anyone else does. Vargas, however has two more years of arby after this season before he becomes a FA and that is worth a lot especially to a smaller market team(so the dodgers offer i said above is even less likely, but the nats, tigers, and A's are still on the table).

 

I stand by my argument that vargas should have as much value in a trade as jennings especially if the old addage that pitchers are worth more in midseason trades than in the offseason(batters being the opposite).

-Don

[vacin8r]

"Seriously though, who is going to trade anything for Vargas? He isn't anything more than mediocre, and his salary is only going to increase from 2.5 million as he enters his last years of arbitration."

 

Well it seems the market value out there for mediocre starting pitchers in free agency is around 4 years and 40 million dollars. An equally mediocre arm making less than half that even with a raise in arby is worth quite a lot actually. I think my comparison to the jennings trade is the perfect example of that.

-Don

[dadofandrew]

Vargas would improve almost any rotation in MLB. Some teams do not want him due to cost or place in the success cycle, but plenty would.

[mannyduke]

Vargas would improve almost any rotation in MLB. Some teams do not want him due to cost or place in the success cycle, but plenty would.

Agreed on that. But going back to the original post, it would not make sense for KC to trade a rookie (low cost for at least two more seasons) bullpen guy doing an okay job as your closer guy like Soria in exchange for a 5-6 inning starter like Vargas (likely to make at least $3 million next year). Gobble for Vargas is probably a little more balanced, but I'm not sure if either team makes that trade.

 

Vargas is probably being put to his best and highest use right now as a number 4 or 5 starter on a team that clearly has at least 3 (and maybe 4, if you count Yo) starting pitchers that are better than him. Put him on a team like KC where he would probably be viewed as at least a number 3 starter, and disaster could ensue. He might be expected to pitch longer into games and get hit around pretty hard as a result. He simply is not that talented of a pitcher to get through an opposing lineup 4 times.

[rluzinski]

Seriously though, who is going to trade anything for Vargas? He isn't anything more than mediocre, and his salary is only going to increase from 2.5 million as he enters his last years of arbitration.

 

As others have said, a mediocre starting pitcher is quite valuable. Now, he's barely mediocre and has only two years left before free agency but he should have some value in a trade.

[burniebrewer]

Jennings didn't look like much of his former self against us the other night. Didn't he used to throw in the low 90s? Everything he threw looked off-speed and in the mid-80s. He just didn't look right.

[Cooper]

Just throwing this on the pile:

 

Based on what I've read, it sounds like KC would much rather deal Dotel somewhere for prospects and return Soria to the closer role. I think they like him a lot, meaning they probably wouldn't be willing to deal him for Vargas.

 

Others said that it'd kind of seem like a backwards deal for KC, and I agree with that. They're looking to aquire young, cheap (for now) talent rather than those larger salaries.

[UWRyan428]

What about Vargas to the Rockies for Manny Corpas or Ubaldo Jimenez (though he's more of a pipedream)? He knows their division and his sinker would play well at Coors, though I don't have his numbers at Coors. Next year, they could challenge with Vargas holding up the backend instead of Rodrigo Lopez.

[foamboy1]

I don't think we should trade valuable starting pitching depth just to get them out of the way. These guys are too valuable....a young starter with a good arm and low salary should have better value than a LOOGY.