Move Rickie to a new position?

[silversurferr]

For a long while, I have said his defensive talents were a better fit for centerfield; focusing of course on his exceptional speed and quickness. But despite the ups and downs and the stubborn reluctance to go to into the best fit, Rickey is becoming at least adequate in the field at second. At the plate, he has good power for a middle infielder, and decent, if not good plate discipline. He runs the bases (not just steals) exceptionally well. Most agree he is miscast as a lead off hitter. One thing that bugs me is that when he swings, he just does not seem put the ball in play between the lines. He strikes out or pops up too much. With his skill set, on many occasions he should be putting the ball in play and making the other team get him out. He does not adjust his swing with two strikes; he either walks takes that vicious power hack. With his current approach, he should be batting seventh. At the plate, there is no other starter who can do better at lead off. In the field, it is too late to move him, unless he is going to become a utility player. Should not do that until he has tapped out on improvement. And remember, he is only 26 years old!! I expect him to have a solid year.

[Invader3K]

The problem is that the mediocre player has the tools to be better than the others offensively.

Maybe he has "tools", but I cannot fathom Rickie becoming better offensively than Fielder or Braun at this point.

 

I do agree that Rickie was probably rushed to the Majors. I think it was quite obvious...I mean, they basically had no other options at 2B after they traded Junior Spivey. But I don't think Rickie is this unknown quantity at this point, like some seem to still think. I think we know what we can expect from him by now. It seems like this season and the last two years have been called "make or break" years for the guy. I know he was a high draft pick and mashed in the minors...but at some point I think fans have to accept the data we've been presented with on a player.

[Ennder]

I think we know what we can expect from him by now

 

His last 3 years have all been extremely different, so hard for me to agree with this.

[Invader3K]

His lines from the last three seasons:

 G AB H 2B 3B HR RBI R BB K SB CS AV OBP SLG OPS 2006 95 359 100 15 3 8 34 73 30 92 19 5 .279 .363 .404 .766 2007 118 409 96 21 6 16 36 87 78 116 25 2 .235 .374 .433 .807 2008 129 475 111 22 7 14 46 89 66 115 19 5 .234 .342 .398 .740 

I wouldn't say they're that different, if you account for the increased amount of ABs in the last two years. In fact, it seems like his average dropped the more ABs he got...but pretty much identical performance the last two seasons. A slight swing in OBP and SLG...but nothing overly dramatic. It seems like we can reasonably expect him to hit under .250, with about 15 home runs. The question mark for him is probably OBP...if he can reach around .370, that's not too bad. If only .340 or so, that's probably not what you want if you continue using him as a leadoff hitter.

 

(PS. sorry for the lousy formatting)

 

 

(edit: prettified --1992 http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif)

[Ennder]

His AVG, ISO, BB/K have been all over the place as well as his HR/FB.

If we 'expect' the worst we have a .234 hitter who walks less than 8% of the time and has an ISO of only .125. If we expect the best we have a .279 hitter who walks 16% of the time with a very solid .198 ISO. The difference between those two lines are staggering. He is not an easy player to project at all.

Even if you throw out 2006 and assume 2007/2008 are his 'level' you see hsi BB, K, ISO all over the place. Out of all the Brewers hitters he is the one I'm least comfortable projecting for this year. He could be an all star, he could be benched or anything in between.

[logan82]

.340 is still one of the better OBPs on the team. Considering his career OBP is closer to .352, he is probably our best bet as a leadoff hitter outside of JJ if you assume Fielder and Braun shouldn't leadoff.

[RU Rah Rah]

He could be an all star, he could be benched or anything in between.

That's what's so maddening. His "potential" runs the gamut. He could break out this year, or he could slump horribly, or he could just be Rickie-esque. I just don't know.

[logan82]

Rickie-esque at the plate is league average or a little above. If his glove was average, he would be a very solid major leaguer. He isn't as easy to replace as many seem to think. There is just the "2nd overall pick" stuff that follows him and generates high expectations, with good reason. If he never meets those expectations, he will be considered a bust, which is unfair.

[steve267268]

If Rickie were a sausage i'd bet on him every time...

[RU Rah Rah]

Rickie-esque at the plate is league average or a little above. If his glove was average, he would be a very solid major leaguer. He isn't as easy to replace as many seem to think. There is just the "2nd overall pick" stuff that follows him and generates high expectations, with good reason. If he never meets those expectations, he will be considered a bust, which is unfair.

I agree, basically. At this point, I'd be content with average offensive and average defense, but he's not even providing that -- yet.

 

For all my impatience with him, I do realize that he's still relatively young. I don't think you can just write him off at age 26.

[JJHardy7]

Right now is the perfect time to start giving Rickie some training in CF. Cameron is on his way out and we'll need someone eventually anyway. Then again, he can barely play 2B the way it is, imagine if his infield practice were cut into by his outfield practice. We have a lot of options for next year, though. More talent is on the way.

 

I don't think Rickie should take a single fly ball in CF. There's no way I trust him to be able to anticipate where the ball will ro or react to the ball. That and Lo Cain will make a pretty good case as to why he should be in CF next year IMO. I'm not a Rickie guy since I think he's been one of the most overrated prospects in recent memory. The guy put up some stats that made one (me included) believe that this guy would be a stud. He's done little in MLB to show that was the case. Now, yes we could've made a worse selection. There's nothing wrong with having a below average 2b that is cheap. I'd have him keep the spot warm until Green or Lawrie are ready to take it over. The problem I do see during that time is if Hardy and/or Prince are moved. We'll need to get more production from our weak positions in order to make up for the lost production. It's the age old saying around here...maybe Rickie will figure it out this year? I doubt it and to be honest I don't give that much of a chance of happening. It'd be wonderful for it to happen and if it does I'll mark it down as a nice surprise. If it doesn't happen, there's nothing wrong with keeping him at 2B until one of the younger guys is ready to take the spot over.

[lukevan]

Short piece on Rickie from Yahoo sports. I'm definitely of the opinion that Weeks gets very undue, New York Yankee type criticism for his play.

[sheetskout]

Short piece on Rickie from Yahoo sports. I'm definitely of the opinion that Weeks gets very undue, New York Yankee type criticism for his play.

I agree. I would rather have a Weeks-type who is young and obviously has some offensive upside than a Mark Ellis-type who is a remarkable fielder but won't improve a lot. This is Weeks' make-or-break obviously, but I honestly believe there are a ton of worse options out there.

[TheCrew07]

It's not undue criticism... his talent is obvious, so are the lack of results relative to his talent.

[kramnoj]

It's not undue criticism... his talent is obvious, so are the lack of results relative to his talent.

 

The statement that was made that Weeks gets undue criticism, not that Weeks shouldn't be criticized. We have one person here saying that Weeks doesn't even belong in the majors and insultingly saying he should be a bat boy. Do you think that is fair? Too many people can't just be fair and say that Weeks has been disappointing. They have to try to find ways that they think is funny or clever to diminish his value.

 

Others here call Weeks a bust, which should really be reserved for players that truly bust and contribute no value to the team that drafted them.

[TheCrew07]

Not really no... metrics treat all misplays equally and when Ricky screws up DPs, that's a huge blow. I feel he's below average defensive, around average offensively, and playing vastly below his potential. Posters are going to go the extremes on every single topic here. Had Weeks performed evenly remotely close to his talent level this wouldn't even be a topic.

 

I'm not one for boo-hoo so and so is being picked on... do your job and people have nothing to say, it's that simple. I'm not very sympathetic by nature, I'm not going to defend Hall when people rag on him either, they've earned their warts, it's no one's fault but their own.

[pete]

The Neyer thing reads like someone needing to file a column and not having much to write about. Other than maybe catching a playoff game last year, it wouldn't surprise me if he hadn't watched a Brewers game in years. The criticism of Braun is laughable. It's a joke that the analysis is based entirely on one defensive metric.

 

 

 

I believe Keith Law is the one who started the Rickie Weeks to CF movement. Where and when is he supposed to learn the position, AAA this year? What if he fails? What if he hits like he does now? Its decent, but what would be the point?

[Oldcity]

Yeah, Neyer says Braun probably shouldn't be in left field. Well then where the heck should he play?

[pete]

Neyer says Braun should play 1st. I thought he did really well myself. I'd put him as above average and it was his first year there.

[logan82]

I think most metrics had Braun as slightly below average or average.

[razzzorsharp]

I will take slightly below average from an above average hitter in his field year learning a new position. He will only get better over the next couple of years as well.

[lukevan]

Had Weeks performed evenly remotely close to his talent level this wouldn't even be a topic.

 

I'm not one for boo-hoo so and so is being picked on... do your job and people have nothing to say, it's that simple.

 

This confuses me. What is his talent level? I think it's apparent that his talent level isn't as high as everyone thought when we was drafted. It's not Rickie's fault that we gave him an MLB contract right away.

 

And how is he not doing his job? By all accounts, Rickie is one of the hardest working players on the team. If he's putting in max effort, there's not much more that he can do. Sometimes, you just have to wait for the light to go on, everything to click and that just hasn't happened for Weeks and maybe he'll always be the player that he is today, and that's still MLB-caliber. He's still well above a replacement level player, so I fail to see how he's not "doing his job."

[Fear The Chorizo]

Rickie's physical talents jump off the scouting report, but IMO he was never given enough developmental time in the minors to work on his weaknesses as a baseball player so that they wouldn't be constantly exploited at the major league level. Weeks was talented enough to excel in the minors despite his weaknesses, because minor league pitching wasn't consistent enough to constantly attack them. He always hit well enough for people to overlook his defensive shortcomings at 2nd (the whole "bat will play" theory) - now that he's not an elite offensive 2B at the major leage level his defensive issues are magnified.

He had a ton of collegiate fanfare prior to being drafted, but many forget that Weeks came from a relatively small D-1 college and there were some questions about the level of competition he faced while piling up his gaudy offensive statistics.

Scouts were about 50/50 as to whether he should be moved to the outfield or remain at 2B after being drafted - he's improved from being atrocious to meh defensively at 2nd, but it will be near impossible for a middle infielder to become a good defender when he has stones for hands and an inaccurate throwing arm. I think the Brewers should have tried him in the OF from day 1. However, I don't see how the Brewers can think of changing his position at this point, because they don't have a solid alternative at 2nd within their organization - and plenty of possible outfielders developing in the minors.

[endaround]

The are three huge problems with that column:

 

1) The Brewers don't have a better option for 2B (or if you move Hall you then have a hole at 3B, at least Grudz and Durham could be part time players at 2B)

 

2) There is no reason to move Braun.

 

3) This would be the worst possible year to move Fielder. The market was flooded with all bat no glove players. Adam Dunn was left with just interest from the Nationals and he's only making $1.5 more than Prince over the next 2 years so its not like Fielder would have been this huge bargain.

[CheezWizHed]

This article seemed like the normal ESPN nonsense:

 

The Weeks complaints were probably in the ballpark; Fielder's D, sure, but trade him now?; Braun moving to 1B seemed ridiculous. He will be an above average LF with a couple years experience. Why limit him to 1B?

 

Seriously, has any player as significant to his team as Fielder is been traded 1/2 way through ST? Seems like the worst of all times to trade him. I'm guessing Neyer is hoping that the trade will be with Boston or NYY...