National League Rookie of the Year (merged with SmartBall's tulo thread and craigharmann's "Braun and Yo for ROY?" thread)

[1992casey]

Ouch. Much worse than reported on Home Plate this afternoon.

 

Here's a separate Pence injury thread: Hunter Pence out 4-6 Weeks

 

Any other rookies we should be talking about, even if they may not come close to Ryan?

[chiltonno1brewfan]

I would like to think that Ryan Braun has the inside track on the ROY, but someone said that there are a couple of pitchers that are doing really well, then you have Hunter Pence, whose outstanding, but might be on the DL(is that true?). Even so, if he's not, there's gonna be a good fight the rest of the year for the ROY,if it's a pitcher, i have my own opinion about that. And that is I think that there should be a separate ROY for pitchers, the reason being,guys like Braun and Pence play every day, if your a starting pitcher, you only play every fifth day. It all goes back to when Scott Podsednik took second in the ROY voting to Dontrell Willis. And that's all i have to say about that.....http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/pimp.gif

[MoneyballMan]

Interesting that on the telecast tonight they mentioned that he could "win" the "rookie triple crown". While that sounds impressive, I was wondering if a) anyone had ever heard of someone refer to anything like this before and b) are there stats available that would confirm if it's ever been done before (assuming it has) and then c) who has done it?

 

I had just never heard anyone refer to a "rookie triple crown" even informally. Interesting, though.

[uwisfan]

I dont think a rookie triple crown is a big deal. Not a whole lot of rookies have great seasons, so I'd guess it's pretty often that one comes in and dominates the categories compared to the rest of the field. Now if Braun had a complete season, he would be in the running for an actual Triple Crown (Mike Schmidt). And I wouldnt worry about any pitchers either. It's not uncommon for rookie pitchers to dominate while the league figures them out.

 

What is uncommon is for rookies to come in & have seasons like Braun..and even Pence for that matter. It's a 2-horse race and Braun has a solid lead.

[1992casey]

I don't think the rookie triple crown is a big deal for evaluating a player or his future performance, but I see it as a big deal for the people who vote for the award winner. Of course, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, if I were voting, I'd try to use other stats. I'd be in the minority, though.

[pitchleague]

well, with Pence out for 4-6 weeks, Braun will definitely have the chance to catch up to him in ABs and thrust himself into the ROY lead in the media, especially if he keeps doing what he's been doing and the Brewers stay in first/in the race.

 

There's no way the media could ignore him any more as they won't have any other NL rookie to really look at anymore (not that they were ignoring him at all, but you get what I mean)

[lithium75]

Braun continues to impress me. What makes me think that Braun is the real deal is games like today's game. Harang was rediculous. 10 innings pitched, 7 hits, 1 run, 0 bases on balls, and 10 k's. How often does a pitcher go 10 innings?

 

Today, Harang was a good pitcher on the top of his game. He was lights out, and it is a shame he did not get the win for the outing (this opinion is in the grand scheme of things, as a Brewer's fan, I don't want anyone to get a W against us.) Why didn't he get the win? A solo shot by Braun.

 

Not only that, but I believe that Braun went 2-4 with the HR against him. He may have even gone 3-5, I don't remember. Rookies are not supposed to do that agains good pitchers. Teams are supposed to have figured out Braun by now, and he is numbers are supposed to be declining by now.

 

I know that this season is still in the "Small Sample Size" catagory for Braun, but it appears as though he is seamlessly making adjustments, and is still getting better as the season goes on. He could be really special.

 

I agree that our last ROY did not turn out that well, but Listach was a mediocre prospect who had a really good year. Braun appears, so far, to be an entirely different kind of player. So far, it appears as though he could end up being Albert Pujols godd, ARod good. Listach had the potential to maybe become Tony Phillips good. Honestly, Braun appears to have a bigger offensive potential than Fielder, and he could win the MVP this year.

 

My final thought for this thread is this. Remember when we drafted him? Everyone was praying that gordon fell to us. If not Gordon, then Zimmerman. Neither did, and we were stuck with Braun. There wasn't a single person here, myself included, that was happy with Braun over Gordon and Zimmerman. It may change in the future, but right now, I am awful glad we were stuck with Braun. How things have turned around for the Brewers. Fate seems to finally be shining on us.

[Ennder]

Braun is the only guy on the team that made Harang throw strikes. Jenkins swung at a ball that would have hit him if he didn't swing, then swung at a high outside fastball and then at a ball in the dirt. The team in general swung at everything which made it very easy on Harang. I like Harang but that game is on the Brewers stinking more than on him being a 6'7" flamethrowing freak of nature in my book.

[lithium75]

Ennder, I agree that the rest of the team looked horrible, but give credit where credit is due. The only people allowed to judge Harang's performance are the people in and around the batter's box. Maybe the Brewers were a bunch of hackers, or maybe his stuff was just that deceptive.

 

The bottom line is this, Braun destroys left handed pitching. Harang is a righty that made a bunch of quality major league batters look stupid. Braun was either 2-4 or 3-5 against him. He struck out in his first at bat, and made adjustments thas resulted in a nice day for him.

 

We scored 8, 5, and 10 runs in the last 3 games. If the Brewers were so inept that they made a mediocre pitcher look like a HOFer, then we probably would not have been able to average 8 runs a game in the last 3 games, one of which was against Zito.

[Fatter than Joey]

Fate seems to finally be shining on us.

 

Well -- If by fate you mean "Prince Fielder NL HR leader" I agree http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif -- I suspect Gordon and Zimmerman would be putting up better numbers if they got to bat in front of Fielder.

 

Braun looks like a keeper though -- He has a great plate approach.

[brewers255]

Harang is 10-2 with a 3.45 era. He is one of the most underrated pitchers in the game. His fastball is about 93 and the slider is un-hittable calling him medicore is one of the most insane things I have heard. Maybe Braun just had a good night and the rest didnt?

[splitterpfj]

For whatever reason, Harang's 16 wins and 216 K's from last year didn't catch people's attention. That is an excellent pitcher, getting it done in an extreme hitter's park.

[lithium75]

It would not have made my post very convincing to claim that Harang is a future HOFer. I am aware that he is a very good pitcher. I just did not want to give people the opportunity to bash my arguement by saying that Harang was not a good measuring stick. Even the most unsympathetic baseball observer has to admit that Harang should at least be considered a mediocre Major league pitcher.

[1992casey]

lithium, I don't think Ennder was doing any backhanded bashing at all. The way I read it, he was giving Ryan full credit for doing things right.

[Team Canada]

I suspect Gordon and Zimmerman would be putting up better numbers if they got to bat in front of Fielder.

 

Maybe, but it probably wouldn't make that much difference. Braun's just out of his mind right now.

[MoneyballMan]

lithium, great post and great evaluation of where Braun is. I agree completely and have been very impressed thus far. And I will also admit that I was a Gordon or Zimmerman fan ahead of Braun at the time.

[Brewtacular]

I posted this in another thread but i think some may find it interesting

 

From the USA Today...While I am not sure if they are on 'the drugs' I can only assume as much. (Page was posted Aug. 4 but this ROY voting is from July 18

 

NL top rookie

 

Voting on a 5-3-1 basis:

Name, team (first-place votes) Points

1 Hunter Pence, Astros (11) 58

2 Troy Tulowitzki, Rockies 17

3 Ryan Braun, Brewers (1) 16

 

Others receiving votes: Josh Hamilton, Reds 9; Chris Sampson, Astros 5; Tim Lincecum, Giants 1; Justin Germano, Padres 1; Matt Chico, Nationals 1.

 

Last month: 1) Pence, 2) Tulowitzki, 3) Chris Young, Diamondbacks.

 

-- compiled by Steve Gardner, commentary by Daniel Paulling

[JoeHova]

yeah, Pence probably has it won, despite Braun's superior numbers across the board. Pence got so much hype for whatever reason that people haven't even noticed that Braun is out-hitting him by a considerable margin.

[splitterpfj]

There's no way anyone but Braun will win this award, unless Braun gets hurt. Braun was overtaking Pence in every stat, even before Pence got hurt, and now none of them will even be close. Add that to the fact that Braun's team is in the race, while Houston is eyeing draft picks....this is not a contest.

[saget]

Gotta agree with splitter on this one. Braun is putting up Pujols-like stats and is showing no signs of slowing down.

 

My prediction of 35 HRs for him may have been a bit low.

[splitterpfj]

As of right now, Braun would need 360 plate appearances to qualify for the batting title, he has 305.

 

It's going to come right down to the wire, and someone can tell Hanley Ramirez to knock it off now too.

[1992casey]

I'm losing you, splitter. If Ryan has 305 PAs, he'd need 297 more appearances to qualify for the batting, OBP, or SLG title.

[LouisEly]

You need something like 3.1 plate appearances for every game played to qualify for the batting title, so what splitter is referring to is that after 116 games, 360 plate appearances are needed to qualify at this point. By the end of the year it will be much higher. If Braun averages 4.5 plate appearances per game the rest of the way out, he will come very close to qualifying.

[hurricanecrush]

I think he meant that if the season ended today, the cutoff for the Brewers would be 360 PA's, which means he has 55 to make up by the end of the season.

[1992casey]

I got it. Thanks LE and hurricane. Looks like we have the numbers covered from every angle now.