Anyone else concerned by this? (Hardy's future in Milwaukee)

[rm121978]

They can't keep replacing all their veterans with young guys and expect to compete more than once every 5 years.

 

The harsh reality is, in this market, this is exactly what they have to do. It might be every 3-4 years instead of every 5, but this team can't afford to compete at an upper level every year. They have to pick their spots (like last year) and get a little lucky along the way with young guys and cheap free agents having big years.

[BrewCrewForever]

Do not move Hardy, big big mistake. Escobar will not have near the bat Hardy has. I'd be extremely angry if they trade Hardy to make room for someone who's unproven. Hardy, as mentioned, is one of the top shortstops in the game. I'd flip Escobar for some pitching while his stock is high.

My feelings exactly. I mean I'm not saying Escobar won't be good but to trade a proven SS like Hardy for an unproven one who is known more for his glove and really only put up 1 good year with the bat just does not seem to make sense to me. I guess time will tell what happens with this situation, not a bad one to have though.

[Never Outhustled]

I would fine with using Escobar as trade bait at the deadline to add a stud pitcher, even though Hardy is gone after 2010. The Brewers have a massively underrated SS prospect in Brent Brewer, and he will be very ready by 2011. Most don't believe in him now, but it will be much clearer by the end of July who our SS of the future is.

[Brian the Automator]

If I were the Brewers, I probably wouldn't want to move Hardy to another position either. He's worth more in trade value than he is to the team as a player shifted in the defensive spectrum.

[Molitor4]

Does anyone else remember Hardy saying that he wouldn't sign with teams coming out of high school if they wouldn't let him play shortstop? I thought there was a story about that as the Brewers were one of the few teams that would let him stick at shortstop.

[Brian the Automator]

does anyone else remember hardy saying that he wouldn't sign with teams coming out of high school if they wouldn't let him play shortstop? I thought there was a story about that as the brewers were one of the few teams that would let him stick at shortstop.

That seems odd to me... He's always been a decent shortstop, so I'm not sure why an organization would have demanded that he switch positions from the get-go.

[nate82]

does anyone else remember hardy saying that he wouldn't sign with teams coming out of high school if they wouldn't let him play shortstop? I thought there was a story about that as the brewers were one of the few teams that would let him stick at shortstop.

Yes Hardy was looked at as a pitcher by other clubs.

[Molitor4]

I'd trade Esco, and sign JJ long term.

You might be trading a 10 time gold glover at a premium position then if escobar turns into the second coming of ozzie smith and hardy continues his current career path then we made the wrong choice. This isn't really that easy of a decision if escobar hits .270 15hr and 60 rbi's he has better value then hardy as he may save 20 runs over the year by getting to balls that hardy can't. Not to mention escobar is also a plus runner.

[Molitor4]

Here's an outside suggestion. A-Rod was a better defensive SS than Jeter, but it was A-Rod that moved positions because Jeter was already established on that team. Why not try the same and see if Escobar would move to allow a slightly less defensive SS (but still a MLB caliber one) stay at his position?

because jeter is the only shortstop in the majors with less range then hardy. That was a stupid move on the yankees parts as just about every major league pundit believes jeter is a far below average defensive shortstop at this point in his career. Arod really should be moved back as jeter is costing them a great deal of runs with his lack of range. Part of me is dumbfounded by the fact the jeter is starting games over jimmy rollins at shortstop on team usa.

[Molitor4]

I would fine with using Escobar as trade bait at the deadline to add a stud pitcher, even though Hardy is gone after 2010. The Brewers have a massively underrated SS prospect in Brent Brewer, and he will be very ready by 2011. Most don't believe in him now, but it will be much clearer by the end of July who our SS of the future is.

if were talking about unestablished prospects brewer is far more risky then escobar. talk about not hitting much.

[homer]

If you trust zone rating, then Hardy's range is pretty good. I was actually surprised to discover that. He seems limited range wise - especially in the hole.

[RightFieldCoder]

Yes, we'll have a below average 3B in Escobar. But it would result in the same hitting lineup as if we had moved Hardy over to 3B and would keep Hardy happy. It's an out of the box thinking that could work. That's what small market teams need to sometimes do. Like signing a C that can longer throw and just sticking him at 1B. Not a permanent gold star move, but one that could work out for a year or two.

[RockCoCougars]

As far as I'm concerned, JJ is someone you build around. He's young, is solid in the field, and is a pretty good hitter. That said, I think Escobar is a trading piece. His value will likely never be higher. Not to say he will never develop as a hitter, but it's doubtful that he will ever hit like JJ. Simply put the gap between JJ's bat and Escobar is much greater than the gap between their gloves (haven't seen Escobar much, but JJ is well above average defensively). If Boras is Escobar's agent, that makes me want to move him even more. I'd like to see him as a piece of a Peavy trade (yes, I'm dreaming).

[Brian the Automator]

As far as I'm concerned, JJ is someone you build around. He's young, is solid in the field, and is a pretty good hitter. That said, I think Escobar is a trading piece. His value will likely never be higher. Not to say he will never develop as a hitter, but it's doubtful that he will ever hit like JJ. Simply put the gap between JJ's bat and Escobar is much greater than the gap between their gloves (haven't seen Escobar much, but JJ is well above average defensively). If Boras is Escobar's agent, that makes me want to move him even more. I'd like to see him as a piece of a Peavy trade (yes, I'm dreaming).

He's someone you build around, if you have the money. I hate to say it, but JJ's close enough to free agency right now where he should be able to smell the dollars. If they had signed him to a Braun-like contract before he started hitting arbitration, they probably could have had him for a reasonable amount. As it stands, however, shortstops who can hit AND field make serious cash. Looking around the diamond, the only real close-to-ready impact prospects are Gamel, Escobar, and perhaps Salome. The key to success for a small market club is to continually unblock players and ride the cheap years.

 

I understand that JJ's somewhat of a special player, and he really seems like a great guy to boot. I've been a big fan since draft day, and the idea of him in another uniform doesn't sit well with me... but at the same time, he's going to be a free agent after 2010... which coincides at about the time the Yankees might need to move Jeter away from SS. If JJ puts up big years in '09 and '10, he could very well be the best SS available on the market, and that's bad news for Brewers fans.

[TheCrew07]

He could very well be the best position player on the market, not just the best SS.

[Molitor4]

That seems odd to me... He's always been a decent shortstop, so I'm not sure why an organization would have demanded that he switch positions from the get-go.

he has been a decent shortstop but i recall most scouts thought he had a higher ceiling as a pitcher.

[Brian the Automator]

He could very well be the best position player on the market, not just the best SS.

The FA class of 2010 contain names like Pujols, Mauer, Berkman, A Ramirez, and Youkilis. Although, I could see many of those players (with maybe the exception of Mauer) getting locked up into extensions before then.

[Molitor4]

Yes, we'll have a below average 3B in Escobar. But it would result in the same hitting lineup as if we had moved Hardy over to 3B and would keep Hardy happy. It's an out of the box thinking that could work. That's what small market teams need to sometimes do. Like signing a C that can longer throw and just sticking him at 1B. Not a permanent gold star move, but one that could work out for a year or two.

that's not really the issue you'd be negating escobars speed by playing him at third because third base is played on reactions were as a shortstop requires speed to cover more ground as he has more time to get to the ball then a 3rd baseman does.

[apirk]

I think it is too early to worry about this. Like someone said earlier too much talent is never a problem. I think around July/August we'll see how Escobar is playing and we'll see if Hardy is putting up th esame numbers he has in the past two years. Hell if HArdy slumps down the stretch I am sure everyone will be calling for his head like they have Hart. I think people are making too much out of Boras being Escobar's agent. Despite agents both Hardy and Escobar(if he pans out) will probably demand a a nice chunk of change so both could be gone. If Escobar is ready next year and they lose Hardy they have plenty of time to have a replacement if they don't think Escobar will stay. I'd love to see Hardy stay but I just don't think it is going to happen. I think he'd still test the market whether they had Escobar or not.

[cwolf2012]

"But it would result in the same hitting lineup as if we had moved Hardy over to 3B and would keep Hardy happy."

 

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We would be wasting Escobar's plus fielding and emphasizing his bat (or lack thereof). I would be furious with the team if they made Escobar a 3B. His value would be at best league average at 3B (at BEST), and a minimum of league average at SS. He would be worth a lot more in a trade as an SS than playing 3B.

 

I concur that one of the 2 will have to be traded. There's no way around it. Both of them are pretty much at maximum value right now, so at some point this season/next offseason is the time to pull the trigger. If we're out of it at the deadline, trade Hardy, if we're in the hunt, trade Escobar. Or, wait until the offseason, where we sign JJ long term or trade him.

[TooLiveBrew]

That quote makes Hardy seem completely unwilling to change positions, which means more than likely this is either his last year in Milwaukee, or Escobar is going to be traded.

 

What baffles me is that people are still surprised that Hardy doesn't want to move from SS. One, this is old news. Melvin commented last season (iirc) that JJ wasn't amenable to that kind of move. Two, why on freaking earth would you move from being an elite talent to a 'solid' one?

 

I agree with those who've highlighted that having Escobar & Hardy is a good thing, not a bad thing. Whether they're both in Milwaukee or not, they will certainly both help the Brewers get better.

[PlayerHader]

The only way this works out with both guys in Milwaukee is if the Brewers are able to sign Hardy to an extension (less likely by the day) and then move him to 3rd after this season or whatever to bring Escobar up.

 

What would a Hardy deal cost right now? Would he sign 5 years, 30 million?

[Invader3K]

I doubt it...I think it would be closer to 5 years and $50 million.

[Fatter than Joey]

Whether they're both in Milwaukee or not, they will certainly both help the Brewers get better.

 

I think if they are both starting in Milwaukee at the same time it will not be optimal -- I certainly agree that having an AS and a hot prospect at the same position is a good dilemma to have, and I think that is your point -- however I think that there are more effective options for the Brewers than having JJ and Escobar playing 3b and SS at the same time.

 

JJ Hardy is going to get paid here pretty quick -- and I do not want any part of paying him SS money to play 3b, it would be a terrible waste of resources. I'd rather have some sort of Branyan platoon than paying Hardy $$$$ to play 3b.

[The Ignitor]

Why not try Escobar at 2nd? He can use his range there a bit more than at 3rd. I'm not convinced that Weeks will be our long-term 2nd baseman. Gamel-Hardy-Esobar would be a pretty nice middle infield.