Has anyone else noticed Estrada dogging it out there?

[kmcasper23]

Is it just me or does Estrada seem to be dogging it out there when running the bases. On 2 different occasions he would have beaten a play out at first if he had just run instead of trot to first. Last night on the double play ball, Conine took his time throwing home and then after a triple clutch by the catcher on the throw back to first they still somehow got the jogging Estrada out at first. You should be going all out to first to avoid the double play there, since the Brewers would have won last nights game had he beaten it out and he should have given how the play happened. He did the same thing on Sat on the play Lincecum dropped the ball 3 times while covering the base. Again would have been safe had he run it out.

 

Does this guy have an attitude problem and just not care or is he really just that slow?

[DuWayne Steurer]

You should see the vent thread. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[LUKE232323]

He's lazy as hell and he's slow, not a good combination. But everything he does sreams apathy, including not taking ANY pitches, throwing weakly down to 2nd base when guys steal, and absolutely dogging it down the basepaths.

 

He is definitely my least favorite Brewer right now, by quite a wide margin.

 

He might have cost us the game by not hustling last night.

[Sopranos62]

Finally! I have been displeased with Estrada for a while now. I'm also displeased that he is still batting 5th! He's no protection for Prince and he rarely gets a hit in big RBI/RISP situations. Last night was also a prime example of just how slow the guy is. He cannot throw out basestealers, cannot run, cannot drive in runs and won't take a pitch to save his soul (or the team's chances of winning!). Once Billy Hall comes back the lineup better change!

 

Jason

[JohnBriggs12]

Yost defended Estrada this morning by saying he's had some tightness in his legs lately, and that he was going as fast as he could which isn't very fast.

 

Which begs the obvious question:

 

The two hardest guys to double up on the entire team (Gwynn and Weeks) were sitting in the dougout. Why not use either of them in that situation? Yes they strike out a lot more than Estrada, but Weathers isn't a huge strikeout guy.

[Brian the Automator]

This conversation is steering into the realm of IGT discussion...

 

*nudge*

[JohnBriggs12]

I was just trying to use last night as an example of how Yost misuses players in general and Estrada in particular. It certainly goes beyond that one game.

[jason21nl]

you can blame a weak arm, being lazy, dogging it, and not taking pitches all on Estrada but batting 5th is all on Yost.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

I like Estrada, and it's entirely possible that his legs are hurting (hey, he IS a catcher).

 

But the Rockies announcer, George Frazier, was calling the game last week. And when JE camped under a pop foul behind the plate, with Prince rumbling toward him, as the ball plummeted back to earth, Frazier noted that, instead of taking another step or 2, and making that an easier catch, Estrada reached for the ball, and it kicked off the tip of his catcher's mitt, for an error. George astutely pointed out that, if he were to give it an extra step, the ball would have fallen closer to his body, and the batter probably would have been retired, but...

 

OK, maybe taking that extra step would have been problematic to his legs. Or not. And again, I still think JE is the best catcher we've had since Ted Simmons (he hasn't had much competition for that tile in 25 years, but hey...).

 

But if he's hurt to the point that he can't strain for that extra step, then Damian Miller, who's healthy and always hustles, should be well-rested enough to take a start or 2 from JE until a) he's healthy enough to go all out defensively, or b) Estrada's ready to give it his all.

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

can anyone refresh my memory of the game hall dogged it in the field a few years back ? i recall ned yanked him from the game and he sat a few days.

[Baldkin]

Just heard Bill Schroeder say on ESPN radio that "Johnny broke his bat, that's why he didn't hustle out of the box."

 

I don't know, that seems like one of the worst excuses I've ever heard.

[Paul77]

I yell at my tv set all the time when I see him trotting down to first instead of running. I did it again last night. On top of that he is just slow. Very Slow. But I can't call him lazy. From all indications he busted his back working with the pitchers. Remember how much he caught in spring training? While other guys were going 3 innings he was going 6 & 7 everyday, right out of the gate. He was trying to learn a new pitching staff. You can't call that lazy. And it carried over into the regular season. How long did it take Damien Miller a start behind home plate? The guy likes to catch, and catch alot. And catching isn't easy. Who knows maybe it's starting to catch up with him.

 

I'm by no means trying to defend Estrada for dogging it down the line - it is on no occasion ok to not hustle down the line -, I'm simply saying I don't find the word lazy appropriate.

[brettac1]

He is incredibly slow, so I didn't even think he was dogging it until I saw the replay. He wouldn't have beat it out, anyhow, most likely, but I guess I still have a problem with him not running hard.

 

Normally I don't really care if a guy doesn't run hard on a routine play, pop-up (like Hardy did when he could have been at second on the ball Lopez dropped), etc - 99% of the league doesn't (Eric Byrnes the other night being an exception on the play Mench fell down on). But when a guy has a chance to beat out a GIDP, he has to run hard.

[Paul77]

Quote:

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can anyone refresh my memory of the game hall dogged it in the field a few years back ? i recall ned yanked him from the game and he sat a few days.

---

 

Yeah, I believe it was 2004. He "pulled an Estrada" and trotted down the line on a ground ball out. Ned "talked" to him but Billy did it again in his next start. After that Hall was sat for a next few days.

 

We talked about this earlier this year when Hall stood and admired his towering, way back, no doubt about it.... double. He had to kick it in to serious over drive, and with partial thanks to Carlos Lee, just made it into second.

[FVBrewerFan]

Easy to Monday morning QB, and you can believe me or not, but while i was watching that inning develop I said at the time Yost should PH for Estrada with either Weeks or Gwynn. "The Book" doesn't call for that, but in that situation it just seemed like the right move at the time.

[1992casey]

---

you can blame a weak arm, being lazy, dogging it, and not taking pitches all on Estrada but batting 5th is all on Yost.

---

I'll get technical here and break it down a bit further?

 

Weak arm: I'd put this in the 'he is what he is' category. I can't blame him.

 

Lazy and dogging it: Totally subjective, but also totally fair game for discussion.

 

Not taking pitches: This could fit into the 'is what he is' category, but I'd tend to stick it into the 'blame on Estrada' category.

 

Batting 5th: Totally on Yost.

[Ennder]

He's only batting 5th because Hall is hurt at least. I still don't get it but thats better than when he was batting 5th earlier in the year!

[DHonks]

I wish he would have run hard, but with Conine playing in, there's virtually no chance that he would have beaten the throw out.

[giffted1]

I'm still annoyed at Estrada. I'd love it if we could get Salty this off-season and dump Estrada on some unsuspecting team. I can forgive guys who are working hard and slumping, but not trying is unacceptable.

 

As for batting Johnny fifth, he's horrible for that spot, but we really don't have a better option. Braun is the only guy on the team lately whose hitting has warranted batting him fifth, and he's in the third spot already.

[Tbadder]

I don't buy the leg problem at all. If it's true then I still don't buy it, because then he shouldn't be hitting in that kind of situation. Estrada or Yost be damned. It was one of their or both their fault and they need a dressing down for it.

 

This is another example of how the Brewers just don't take the game seriously. I know people have jumped on me for this idea, but to my mind it won't go away. The Brewers as a whole lack motivation at the plate, and Yost will not push buttons when they need to be pushed.

 

Estarda's at bat was just another example. he's getting pounded inside all night. Does he make an adjustment? No. He sits in the same spot all night, and never lets himself get hit or take the inevitable balls that, that kind of pitching inevitably incurs.

 

As has been said for the millionth time, Estrada shouldn't be hitting fifth. Again, Yost clearly doesn't know what he's doing. Welcome Brewer fans to the new Cubs.

[Paul77]

It's hard to watch this team on the road at times. We can focus on Estrada, but when you go 12 innings and score only one run, it's a team effort.

[whynotthebrewers]

We dump Estrada and there will then be threads on how our catching spot is a black hole and Can we have Moeller back? If we get rid of him we have to go with Rivera and he cant even hit down in the minors. There are not that many catchers that can hit and Estrada hits pretty damn good. You can be mad we lost but it doesn't matter how fast he ran there. The catcher pumped 4 times because he had so much time.

 

Everyone is mad we lost but Yost and Estrada are not the reasons. One run over 12 innings is.

[jhart05]

The less than full out run to first last night on that 3-2-3 double play ball, didn't really bother me that much.

 

Because if you watch the play again, the catcher sat there with the ball for what seemed like forever. Had Estrada been running full out, and we all know that's not very fast anyway, the catcher would have just thrown it earlier and he still would have been out.

 

Now I suppose you could say, well maybe he makes the catcher hurry his throw and he throws it wild, but the chances of that are very small.

 

I was more ticked off at Estrada for the pitch he offered at.

[jason21nl]

The less than full out run to first last night on that 3-2-3 double play ball, didn't really bother me that much.

 

I'm sorry but how can that not bother you? You are in an extra innings game in a playoff run, you had better be running hard on every play. Hustling is one thing that every player can control. You don't need talent to hustle, to run fas yes but not to bust your butt down the line.

[whynotthebrewers]

jhart, I am with you. Who cares if he is out by a step or 4? The catcher did wait and could have had him at anytime. This is an example of complaining just to get the last game off your chest. We lost in extra innings and there is anger whenever we lose. And someone has to be blamed. But it is always in the wrong direction. There are so many other things that could be blamed but it usually is the last couple people who did something wrong. Here is was Estrada and Balfour.