Pirates, Kremblas To Be Tough on Uniform Code, Discipline; Latest: Brewers Do Their Part

[BrianShouseForPrez]

Everyone wearing their socks the same way is a lame high school/junior college tactic. I think it is uncomfortable to wear my socks high, because when you pull your pants up, the elastic strangles your calf/knee. Being forced to be uncomfortable every day doesn't seem like it would help anything.

[nate82]

I'd like to see MLB adopt a uniform policy in general. Everyone on the same team should wear their pants the same way. To those who say that players should not be forced to dress one way or another, do you think a line should be drawn somewhere? What if players started wearing their pants half way down there butts with there underwear showing? Would that be acceptable? Where do you draw the line? Also, when did lefties develop this affliction in regards to not being able to put there cap on straight? Lefties prior to around 1990 never had an issue with this.

 

But then again...I'm just an old curmudgeon.

Well baseball could always go back to the old old old uniforms one size fits all. Basically everyone on the team would look like Prince since he is the biggest player on the team. Look at some of the old style uniforms and you will see they were rather baggy.

 

I personally like the different individual style of the players. I wouldn't like to see every player come out looking like Dave Bush every game or every player dressing like Prince. There are already enough boundaries in MLB of what each player can and can't wear and how they can wear their uniforms. Teams also have policies on what is and isn't acceptable already.

 

To me this is a non issue and I wouldn't want to see MLB become the No Fun League.

[trwi7]

'Cuz I said so!' is an awful reason unless you're a parent.

I still believe it's awful reasoning whether you're a parent or not. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Patrick425]

To me this is a non issue and I wouldn't want to see MLB become the No Fun League.

Yeah, I know I'd have a hard time having fun if I was paid millions to play baseball and my boss enforced some uniform codes for the sake of keeping some semblance of the team concept.

[trwi7]

The team concept? Come on, do you really think it's going to make a difference in the team concept if they don't wear their uniforms the same way?

[TheCrew07]

This is one of those issues where the farther away from the game you are, the less likely you are to believe it. This is about team and about promoting an image, and this is something that happens every single day to people who are paid much less than professional athletes. Most delivery companies have a strict uniform policy and grooming standard (what facial hair if any is acceptable) in the model of the same standards that policeman and soldiers are held to. I see just about every major company at least once a year in the area because of my job and all have some sort of appearance standards, and many have more stringent guidelines for their salespeople who end up being the face of the company outside it's walls. Most warehouses I'm in enforce steel toe footwear, a hard hat, and safety glasses... all safety measures to protect the employees, I'm even forced to obey those safety standards as a vendor, it's the way things work.

 

I can see where teams would be tired of players wearing their hats crooked and to the side as example, that's not the image they are trying to promote. It's not stepping on the throat of individualism as much as it is cleaning up an image to make the product as marketable as possible. Again why does the employee have more righst than the employer? As far as sports go at my level we enforce a sock standard, because about 8 years ago kids started wearing socks that didn't match the uniform in any way... the school colors are orange and black... we had kids showing up on game day with socks that were green, yellow, blue, red... etc... colors that made no sense and even to a guy like me looked terrible. I'm not sure why the switch suddenly got flipped, but it did. We started buying gameday socks and selling them to the kids at cost, for $3 a pair. At practice anything goes and lets just say that I don't share their sense of style...

 

I don't see how sacrificing a little individuality for the opportunity to a play a game as a career is going to hurt anyone.

 

edit. I wanted to add that a friend of mine from the southern part of the state had to service a system in a clean room and the company he was at made him go through the whole routine... strip down naked, shower, put the on the clean gear, and only then he was allowed into the clean room to fix the problem with the system.

[Patrick425]

trwi7[/b]]The team concept? Come on, do you really think it's going to make a difference in the team concept if they don't wear their uniforms the same way?

Yes, I do. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I grew up watching baseball, and for the most part everyone wore their uniforms in the same fashion (70's - 80s). Maybe some of this has to do with players being on a different team every three any maybe there is much less a sense of team than there use to be because of this.

 

When I watch a game now and some players have their socks up and some have their pants down around the back of their shoes, some have their hats on crooked, some have the bills of their hats straight, others are curved. It doesn't really convey the image of a team to me. It conveys a "hey look at me" concept. What happened to letting your bat and glove do the talking and not the way you dress?

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, I know I'd have a hard time having fun if I was paid millions to play baseball and my boss enforced some uniform codes for the sake of keeping some semblance of the team concept.

 

Enforcing a uniform code is having players wear the same jerseys imo. Telling grown men... professionals... how to wear their pants & socks is idiotic.

 

You're telling me you'd have no problem if your boss suddenly, out of nowhere, mandated that all employees must wear bow ties, knickers & penny loafers? Or honestly, [insert any quirky, stupid rule here]

 

 

When I watch a game now and some players have their socks up and some have their pants down around the back of their shoes, some have their hats on crooked, some have the bills of their hats straight, others are curved. It doesn't really convey the image of a team to me. It conveys a "hey look at me" concept. What happened to letting your bat and glove do the talking and not the way you dress?

 

Why do you care how a player dresses? Did Prince's baggy pants lead to the run-in with Parra? I just don't understand the relevance to the team concept, aside from you not liking the way certain players dress. The last thing I think when I see a baseball player is what his hat or pants look like. I mean, good lord, those super-short, super-tight John Stockton-era NBA shorts couldn't have done much for the team concept. If players want to be comfortable (in whatever form/fashion) when they play, why not facilitate it? The only reason to not do so is because it's something someone doesn't like, and what flies more in the face of the team concept than closed-minded stuff like, 'Hey, those pants are too baggy'?

 

 

-- Patrick please note I'm pointing at the Pirates with the closed-minded point, not you... since they're actually the people enforcing some strange, arbitrary dress code, and you're someone having a discussion about what makes sense & doesn't regarding said dress code.

[Patrick425]

You're telling me you'd have no problem if your boss suddenly, out of nowhere, mandated that all employees must wear bow ties, knickers & penny loafers? Or honestly, [insert any quirky, stupid rule here]

 

I think it's a bit of apples and oranges here. I don't think the Pirates (or any baseball team) is being outrageous in their uniform rules. They simply want the team to look like a team, just like a business might allow casual dress but no t-shirts, jeans, sweat pants. I don't think my boss asking me to wear knickers or penny loafers is the equivalent of the Pirates asking all players to where their pants up or down. It's more like my employee asking all employees not to wear tennis shoes or that every male wheres a button down shirt with a collar.

 

Why do you care how a player dresses?

I'm not as concerned about how a player dresses as to how a team dresses as a whole. I think there should be uniformity to it. Each player on a team should dress somewhat the same. I'm not against some individuality. I'm not saying that each player should have the exact same hair cut or that a player can't wear jewelry or have facial hair. However, when each player is wearing their uniform differently, it just doesn't look like much of a team to me. As I mentioned earlier, where do you draw the line? What if the Center fielder decides he wants to wear the road uniform at home and the second baseman wants to wear a retro uniform and the catcher wants to wear different color socks? Should this be allowed.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't think the Pirates (or any baseball team) is being outrageous in their uniform rules.

 

And I do.

 

 

They simply want the team to look like a team

 

And imo they already do, with matching colors, caps, pants, & shirts.

 

 

I think there should be uniformity to it.

 

Why? What tangible element of forging a team does every player wearing his pants at the knees provide? What about the players that hate wearing their pants at their knees? Won't this piss them off & make them feel like their employer is treating them like children?

 

 

As I mentioned earlier, where do you draw the line? What if the Center fielder decides he wants to wear the road uniform at home and the second baseman wants to wear a retro uniform and the catcher wants to wear different color socks? Should this be allowed

 

Nope, and it's not, per MLB rules. Though I suppose the socks thing could be snuck around if the player wears long pants over his shoes. In which case, the exterior uniform would look exactly the same as his teammates'.

 

 

However, when each player is wearing their uniform differently, it just doesn't look like much of a team to me.

 

I honestly don't believe an image could be provided of teammates wearing their uniforms differently enough that there would be confusion as to whether or not they were, in fact, teammates.

[TheCrew07]

Enforcing a uniform code is having players wear the same jerseys imo. Telling grown men... professionals... how to wear their pants & socks is idiotic.

How is this any different than what happens around the country in the business world every single day? Just because your employer doesn't have a strict dress code really doesn't mean anything. Yes my employer has a strict code on sock length, facial grooming, uniform appearance, and so on, I'm very familiar with how this works. Grown men? Maybe young men in the minors, especially with the number of foreign born players. It may be idiotic to you, but the employer has every right to enforce it's idea of image, whether you like it or not. If you don't like it, you're welcome to go find another job.

You're telling me you'd have no problem if your boss suddenly, out of nowhere, mandated that all employees must wear bow ties, knickers & penny loafers? Or honestly, [insert any quirky, stupid rule here]

I might have a problem with it but the debate isn't if they have a right to tell me what I should wear, it's if I'm willing to go along with the new standards or find other employment.

 

Why? What tangible element of forging a team does every player wearing his pants at the knees provide? What about the players that hate wearing their pants at their knees? Won't this piss them off & make them feel like their employer is treating them like children?

You been given numerous examples of why but you can continue to ignore them if you wish. Some of the players are children, brought over from Venezuela, the Dominican, Puerto Rico... At rate, this isn't about being treated like children like it's continually spun, it's about uniformity in appearance, conveying an image, and becoming part of a whole.

 

Why do you care how a player dresses?

Why do you care if they have a standard length pair of pants? It doesn't matter what we think, the team and the league have every right to enforce uniformity, it happens in every other professional league in this country. Actually though I'm not sure about MLS, I was thinking about the NFL, NBA, and NHL. College teams have always had appearance standards... in fact Coach Wooden, who's generally regarded as one of the greatest coaches in any sport, would start the first practice every year by making his players take off their shoes and socks. Then he'd sit down and show them the proper way to wear a sock and lace a shoe, so as to prevent blisters from forming. His players thought he was a crazy old man, but he knew exactly what he was doing... Just because you don't see or understand the reasoning, doesn't mean there isn't a method to the madness.

 

Why? What tangible element of forging a team does every player wearing his pants at the knees provide? What about the players that hate wearing their pants at their knees? Won't this piss them off & make them feel like their employer is treating them like children?

You've basically made this same argument in every post, including the children line... just because you don't like the answer to your questions doesn't make your opinion correct. Again, the team and the league have every right to enforce uniformity of appearance and this happens out in the real world every single day. Some of the players inside each organization are in fact children as they are acquired at 16-17 years old, coming from a background of extreme poverty in a different country... uniformity can help players like that more readily assimilate to the culture. While that may be a secondary objective, I believe the primary goal here is to promote an image and a certain level proffesionalism as is a common business practice in this country.

[Patrick425]

Why? What tangible element of forging a team does every player wearing his pants at the knees provide? What about the players that hate wearing their pants at their knees?

 

I never said they should all wear their pants at the knees. I said it should be the same.

 

Won't this piss them off & make them feel like their employer is treating them like children?

 

God knows we wouldn't want to mess with the selfish fragile ego of today's pampered players.

 

I honestly don't believe an image could be provided of teammates wearing their uniforms differently enough that there would be confusion as to whether or not they were, in fact, teammates.

 

I don't think there would ever be confusion as to what team everyone is playing for, I'm just not sure about the image of belonging to a team that's being sent when different players are concerned about there own individual fashions.

 

I understand the point that just because the owner or management forces each player to wear their uniforms the same way it does not make them a team and actually may make them resentful. There is probably some truth to that. Maybe what I would like to see at the very least is management state that they want a uniform look for all the players and the the players need to get together as a team and decide what that look will be (within reason). If their individual egos are so big that they are unable to do that, then the team needs to enforce a stricter dress code.

 

I remember the first time I saw a player wearing his cap cocked to the side (I think it was Pokey Reese). I thought why is this person doing this other than to say "hey everyone, look at me" I don't roll the same way as my team mates. I also thought that the team should not allow that. I also don't think at times that some of these individual fashion statements are somewhat dispectful to the game itself.

[TooLiveBrew]

It may be idiotic to you, but the employer has every right to enforce it's idea of image, whether you like it or not. If you don't like it, you're welcome to go find another job.

 

Unless, say, you're under salary control & have no way to 'quit' your team & go to another.

 

 

At rate, this isn't about being treated like children like it's continually spun, it's about uniformity in appearance, conveying an image, and becoming part of a whole.

 

And I think your arguments about how it's about being 'part of a whole' are empty rhetoric that don't actually address the question.

 

 

I believe the primary goal here is to promote an image and a certain level proffesionalism as is a common business practice in this country.

 

Everyone dressing the same /= professionalism. My employer, too, has a dress code, but I don't have to look just like my coworkers... just meet minimum or basic standards (just like what every other MLB team has).

 

 

I never said they should all wear their pants at the knees. I said it should be the same.

 

Fair enough, Patrick.

 

 

I'm just not sure about the image of belonging to a team that's being sent when different players are concerned about there own individual fashions.

 

I understand some people don't like me harping on this, but I feel it's important -- what about players not dressing precisely alike has anything to do with being part of a team? Rickie Weeks wears as baggy a uniform as you'll find, and by all accounts is as good a teammate as there is on the Crew.

 

 

I thought why is this person doing this other than to say "hey everyone, look at me" I don't roll the same way as my team mates

 

While I think the cocked hat look is stupid, I see no way that it disrespects the game or the concept of team. These guys are just going to look stupid when we look back at their pictures in ~20 years or so, just like the tighty-short shorts of the NBA/basketball.

 

 

God knows we wouldn't want to mess with the selfish fragile ego of today's pampered players.

 

And there it is -- this, to me, is what it all comes down to. Fans think players should act/appear the way they want them to. You don't think it's important for an employer to be sure he/she is treating his/her employees like adults? I know it's important to me. If a player wants to dress differently from whatever you dub the 'correct' way, as long as it isn't affecting his ability to perform, imo there just isn't a tangible problem. I mean, I can see where Crew07 is coming with the kids trying to adapt to a new culture, but even that's a stretch to me. It's not like wearing your pants all the same way helps with a language barrier, different customs, etc.

 

 

Coach Wooden, who's generally regarded as one of the greatest coaches in any sport, would start the first practice every year by making his players take off their shoes and socks. Then he'd sit down and show them the proper way to wear a sock and lace a shoe, so as to prevent blisters from forming. His players thought he was a crazy old man, but he knew exactly what he was doing... Just because you don't see or understand the reasoning, doesn't mean there isn't a method to the madness.

 

So there was a point to it... unlike arbitrarily having players wear their pants a certain way because, 'Hey, we're the Pirates, and we're crafting an image because we need to be taken seriously!'

[MJLiverock]

I agree with Too Live on this one, this seems to be micromanaging and more of a power trip type thing than any sort of productive rule. Maybe a guy has thick calves and doesn't like the constriction around his leg so he wears his pants low, or maybe he hates stirrups so he doesn't wear them. What harm is it, especially if it makes a player comfortable over 162 game season. Are there going to be rules on wearing long sleeves? At what temperature? Can a guy push his sleeves up to the elbows if he gets warm? Does facial hair matter? (I just keep thinking of the Simpsons where Burns yells at Mattingly to get rid of the sideburns). It just seems ridiculous to worry about pant length and bends in hats.

 

Baseball or any professional athletic sport are not comparable to regular work place rules or norms. It drives me crazy when people say, "In my job, I can't do this or that so these guys shouldn't either." Pro athletes are not working a regular job, they are paid a lot of money because they are one of a very limited set of individuals that can perform thier tasks at the required level and that people are willing to pay to see. Just like actors and actresses are not regular jobs, they have all sorts of percs on the set including the ability to show up to work high and not get fired immediately. They can throw tantrams, show up late, not show up at all, curse people out, etc. Why? Because I'll pay money to see Seth Rogen in a movie, I won't pay to see Joe from Payless Shoes in a movie. Same with pro athletes they don't need meaningless controls because they are their own brand as well. Manny being Manny is worth more to the Dodger than Brady Clark ever was and he will be afforded more leeway because of it. I just watched a profile on Jim Brown's career and a teammate talked about how Jim Brown would show up late for the bus occasionally and Paul Brown would scream at one of Jim's friends about being on time but never said a word to Jim because he was the star and he knew Jim came to play and didn't need the yelling.

 

 

I work in the financial business (not a bank) I only wear a suit when meeting with clients and even then not always because I know some clients just don't care as long as I look presentable. My company doesn't dictate type of tie, color of suit, length of tie, laces or no laces in the shoes, etc. I also know I can get away with more because my production and customer skills are better than others. F bombs and such are not rare in my office I know they are in my wife's company but totally different environment even just in office environs.

 

It reminds me of reading some books about life inside some Wall Street firms, including Cramer's hedge fund. He talked about throwing chairs, smashing computers, screaming profanities that would make a sailor blush. I know of people who work for insurance companies, brokerages, banks, etc. who are borderline physco's at times in the office. How can they get away with it? Because they produced results in a highly specialized game where there isn't a line of equal employees available. I am not implying anything about you or anyone directly but if one is "just a cog in the machine" then yes, one can easily be replaced so toeing the line is advisable. A grocery bagger who throws a tirade or shows up without his work shirt may be fired because it is easy to replace that skillset. A pro athlete who cusses out a coach or wears his pants baggy isn't as easily replaced. Even the NFL has become a joke about their rules, some players do as they please because paying the $5000 fine is worth it to them to do it their way and really no one even notices for the most part. And even unfined things like not wearing thigh, knee, hip pads are common. IBM eventually learned that they had become a joke and employees resented the fashion police and the white shirt blue suit was dropped. Now we have Geek Squad and others making fun of the codes with their uniform but still allow some individualization.

 

I guess my point is work rules that most of us live with don't apply to Pro Athletes, Actors, or anyone paid a ridiculous amount of money for what they do because they aren't replacable and generate way more output than their potetial replacement. Starting fights with them over trivial issues like sock lenght, hair cuts, pant tightness seems like micro managing and counter productive and not likely to produce better results.

 

I'll take a happy productive employee over an annoyed employee, who can't wait to get out and work somewhere else, any day. If Prince Fielder wants to wear baggy pants down to his ankles and hit 50 HR's, I'll take it over TGJ's tight fitting pants to the knees batting abilities every game, especially if I know the team's I'll be competing with for the services of great players can just beat me out by offering the same money and letting a guy bend his hat the way he likes.