Manny Ramirez rejects another offer! *Latest: Finally Signs (reply #45)

[rluzinski]

If I were Melvin, I'd offer Manny 2/$80 mil, with it all being defered until 2209. Since the media just ignores the time value of money, it would be great publicity.

[NYChez]

If this blows up in Boras's face, does Prince fire him? Not likely, but a pleasant thought.

[Invader3K]

Maybe the Dodgers will pull a stunt like the Yankees did with Alex Rodriguez, and say they won't negotiate with Boras any further. Would put the ball in Manny's court completely.

[chansen]

Only a matter of time now until we see the Dodgers give in and accept their counter offer. Same deal but no deferred money. I believe a deal will be done by the end of the weekend, Monday at the latest.

[kramnoj]

I think the Dodgers made the offer with deferred money because they don't have the money this year to give him the full salary guaranteed. If you look at some of the contracts the Dodgers have made recently, quite a few of them are backloaded. Look at the buyout they made with Andruw this year as well.

 

It's not like the Dodgers were trying to defer money to make more payroll room for anyone else this year. The most likely reason is they did so because they have to. Maybe they will extend their line of credit and give in to Boras demands. But I don't think it's a sure thing.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Boras and Manny have screwed each other twice, and they apparently don't understand that yet.

 

#1 was forcing their way out of Boston and out of Manny's old contract that would have paid him 20 Million + in 2009 - Boras assumed the economic climate would be good enough to get Ramirez 4-5 years and 100 Million + more guaranteed money. He was flat out wrong.

 

#2 has been the recent negotiations (or lack there of) with the one team that's willing to pay close to what Manny wants. 25 Million and 45 million for two years is guaranteed money, whether it's deferred or not. It doesn't take a genius to realize that the reason the Dodgers want to defer so much of that money is that they don't have it now, and hope to use the increased revenues Manny would probably bring to them to pay him further down the road.

 

If I'm the Dodgers, I tell Boras and Manny to go pound sand until they come to their senses and realize where the economics of baseball and everywhere else currently are - if it's upfront money that Boras and Manny are so adamant about, it makes no sense for Manny to sit out 1/2 a year and not get paid a dime by anyone.

[JJHardy7]

#1 was forcing their way out of Boston and out of Manny's old contract that would have paid him 20 Million + in 2009 - Boras assumed the economic climate would be good enough to get Ramirez 4-5 years and 100 Million + more guaranteed money. He was flat out wrong.

 

No he wasn't. He didn't work Manny's last deal. If Manny stays in Boston, Boras gets $0. Anything Manny signs now is money Boras wouldn't have had. This doesn't mean I like Boras, but from his own view it makes perfect sense.

[Fear The Chorizo]

#1 was the scenario in which Boras screwed Ramirez out of more upfront money this season - had he kept his meddlesome hands off Manny's old contract there wouldn't be the problem of his client currently not having work.

 

Boras figured the market would allow him to get out of the deal he didn't do and parlay it into a huge deal (a la Arod's opt-out last offseason) that would give him his big commission and Ramirez a long term deal north of 9 figures. He figured wrong.

[logan82]

Fangraphs figured that in today's money the contract including the deferred money would be worth $43M instead of $45M. Link

[JJHardy7]

#1 was the scenario in which Boras screwed Ramirez out of more upfront money this season - had he kept his meddlesome hands off Manny's old contract there wouldn't be the problem of his client currently not having work.

 

Boras figured the market would allow him to get out of the deal he didn't do and parlay it into a huge deal (a la Arod's opt-out last offseason) that would give him his big commission and Ramirez a long term deal north of 9 figures. He figured wrong.

 

I don't think it's fair to say he figured wrong. If he gets 2 year $45 million he'll be fine and that's what I think will happen. I believe that would be slightly more than what Manny had in his previous contract. Again, I don't think he figured wrong for his own pockets. We'll have to see about Manny and what happens. Boras is going from $0 on Manny ot $2.25 million if he gets Manny the deal I suggested.

[TheEndless7]

Am I the only one who thinks most of this is just a hoax?

 

Perhaps that's the wrong word.

 

But frankly, it just seems like Manny just doesn't want to deal with Spring Training. I expect him to sign around the end of the month, maybe middle of April. I could be wrong here, but didn't Manny use to not show up for Red Sox spring training? I think it has much less to do with the money and much more to do with Manny just not feeling like participating in Spring training.

[ILuvDaBush]

I thought the same thing. This is the same guy who used the Green Monster for all it was worth in terms of necessary bodily functions. But also, I could see Manny thinking that there will be many more desperate teams around the deadline, and he could get away with only playing HALF the season at about $15M, and just look at the numbers Manny put up last year in the second half. Well worth $15M. Honestly, I could even see the Yanks then getting into the bidding if they're again lagging behind the Rays and Sawx. The Angels and Arte Moreno could be very amenable to Manny if...well they already have their 2009 AL West rings sized, but I could see Arte getting into the market if he again were worried about the postseason and Rivera is injured and Gary Matthews is himself. They won't have a Garrett Anderson to fall back on.

Do I think it's crazy that Manny rejected ANY deal in this economy with no other lucid demand for his supply? A bit, yeah. Do I think Boras and Manny are ultimately going to claim victory? Definitely.

[Invader3K]

It's stuff like that, and the Clemens deal with the Yankees a couple years ago, that makes me think there should be a rule that if a guy isn't on an MLB roster by, say, June 1st, they shouldn't be able to play for the rest of that season. Guys shouldn't be able to play mercenary and wait out half the season to play for a contender.

[JJHardy7]

It's stuff like that, and the Clemens deal with the Yankees a couple years ago, that makes me think there should be a rule that if a guy isn't on an MLB roster by, say, June 1st, they shouldn't be able to play for the rest of that season. Guys shouldn't be able to play mercenary and wait out half the season to play for a contender.

 

That's not a bad idea. I think if a player was a free agent on opening day they must sign before June 1 or July 1 in order to be on a playoff roster. Maybe something like that would help?

[RightFieldCoder]

I'll try to inject only a little politics into this post. I think it's clear that anyone making over a million dollars a year will see their tax rate go up in the next couple of years. That might be one reason to not take deferred money.

[Invader3K]

I don't really blame Ramirez and Boras for not wanting the deferred money, or at least without interest. I don't know of any other contract in recent baseball history that has been structured in that fashion. I just think they have been somewhat arrogant and disingenuous through this whole thing, and if Manny doesn't sign very soon, he's just going to further hurt his own reputation (of course he may or may not care about that anyway). I can't imagine many of his teammates are exactly thrilled about this circus.

[fondybrewfan]

I am pretty sure Andruw Jones just restructured his remaining contract into a ton of deferred money. That was another Dodger dea, it worked with Jones they are hoping that it will work with Ramirez.

[Invader3K]

But the difference is that Jones is a terrible player who basically had to be released from the team. Manny would still be an impact player, and probably relatively worth the $45 million over two years.

[logan82]

I can't imagine many of his teammates are exactly thrilled about this circus.

 

Since Manny isn't on a team he technically doesn't have any teammates. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[ILuvDaBush]

The Ken Griffey Jr deal had a ton of deferred money as well.

[giffted1]

Looks like they've finally made a deal. 2 years $45mil.

[kramnoj]

Per http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090304&content_id=3915730&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb "Ramirez accepted the same deal the Dodgers offered last Wednesday -- two years, $45 million ($25 million in 2009, $20 million in 2010), payment deferred over five years without interest, with an opt-out clause after one season paid at $10 million each for the first four years and $5 million for the fifth. "

 

McCourt just doesn't seem to have the cashflow to support this team. The Dodgers have done fairly well under his ownership, but I have to think that all this deferring is going to fall in the lap of somebody someday.

[endaround]

I doubt it. It just makes the contract cheaper.

[Ennder]

This is bad news for the Brewers, adds another team that is in the wild card hunt whether it is the Dodgers or the Diamondbacks.

 

Manny will be a monster this year because regardless of what park factors say(we won't go into how flawed OPS+ is again! heh) that park is going to be easier for him to hit in than fenway was.

[CheezWizHed]

I doubt it. It just makes the contract cheaper.

They still have to pay out the money, since its guaranteed... So it means they get him now, but have less money for the next 5 years to pay others. Sounds kind of like the NFL salary cap with signing bonuses. In reality, the bonus is paid immediately, but for the cap, its spread out over the life of the contract. So at the end of the contract, the team has less cap space to sign others and they get into a bind. Most NFL teams figured out this kills their future, so they stopped doing it (Washington and Dallas aside...). So it helps LA now, but hurts them later (thus indirectly helping the Brewers)...

 

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.