Buehrle - Latest: 4-year extension

[Fike85]

We need to find a gritty gamer type to trade for Dye. If Melvin could convince the White Sox that Graffy is a veteran battler and Vargas is a scrapper we could get Dye in no time.

[pogokat]

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Let's make sure we're not counting on him to be the next Carlos Villanueva or even the next Gallardo at this point, as he's probably 2 years away from that.

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he'll be in the same place as yo at this point next year....he could probably contribute to the mlb team today if they gave him a chance...

[brettac1]

We need to find a gritty gamer type to trade for Dye. If Melvin could convince the White Sox that Graffy is a veteran battler and Vargas is a scrapper we could get Dye in no time.

 

Start paging through the media guide - do the Brewers have any ex-punters on the roster? The White Sox need to fill that hole after they lost the guy that plays ex-punter for them.

[pogokat]

based on the ozzie guillen factor, we could probably get buehrle, dye, and josh fields for TGJ and craig counsell

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't believe the premise of this thread.

 

First, ESPN has no credibilty. Second, it's June 2nd. The White Sox are 6 weeks away from making any decision about dumping players. Third, the Sox will make every effort to keep Buehrle who is the leader of their staff and has stated he wants to stay in Chicago.

 

Dye perhaps could be had at some point. But the Sox will want a young OF in return. They won't give him away.

[endaround]

Given that their was a Dye for Abreu discussion, yeah they'll give him away.

[twobrewers]

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Not to mention that in High A ball, Inman has a long way to go before reaching Milwaukee anyway. He's a far thing from a sure bet at this point- just ask Mike Jones or Manny Parra.

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He will be AA in a matter of weeks. And as was said, will likely be where YoGa is currently by this time next year.

 

The Brewers are built for the long haul...not to mortgage the future for 2 months worth of players.

[Crewin06]

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So for both I would give up Vargas, Jackson and Gabe Gross.

 

Then you're not getting either, honestly.

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That's more than fine. Actually that was my point.

 

Buehrle is a year removed from a 5.00 ERA and Dye isn't playing that well right now. Both are free agents after this year and yes we will get draft pick compensation for both, but that process might force us to retain Dye for a figure well and above what we would want to pay him (see Grafinino)

 

You act as though this year is the only year you want the brewers to be good.

 

Right now the brewers are built for a decade of dominance in the central and you want to trade the best pitcher in all of A+ ball (Inman) and our 3rd best prospect (Salome) in a pretty good system for a couple of stop gaps at positions we don't need.

 

Plus the new playoff system in baseball creates a crapshoot. Rarely does the best team in all of baseball win.

 

The Brewers just need to get hot at the right time and ride it to the championship. Like pogokat said I don't think the upgrade really justifies mortgaging the farm.

[Oldcity]

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Start paging through the media guide - do the Brewers have any ex-punters on the roster? The White Sox need to fill that hole after they lost the guy that plays ex-punter for them.

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Gabe Gross was a quarterback at Auburn! Doesn't ex-quarterback trump ex-punter?

[Sepolevne]

I know the White Sox badly need bullpen help, a shortstop and a power hitter. I bet they'd go crazy for Bill Hall for Dye. Granted it would be terrible for the Brewers, but I bet they'd do it if they have enough faith in TGJ.

[Tbadder]

I actually don't want either of these guys. Buehrle is gonna break the bank, so he's strictly a rental. Dye, never really like him because I thought he had to be surrounded by others to lift his game--never the guy to hitch your team to. The only way I can see it happening is if the Brewers gave next to nothing (which won't happen) and we bank a couple of draft choices from another team. If what we give isn't worth those slots then by all means.

[hauser42]

He's a pitcher who has had fantastic success that has never pitched above High-A ball. Let's make sure we're not counting on him to be the next Carlos Villanueva or even the next Gallardo at this point, as he's probably 2 years away from that

 

I believe Inman will be a chip that is traded to shore up part of this team around the trade deadline. My guess is for another arm in the pen.

 

He has along way to Milwaukee and if the big league team can get help for a run it will be time to do it. They will get more arms in this years draft to replace him.

[PeaveyFury]

The Brewers are built for the long haul...not to mortgage the future for 2 months worth of players.

 

Trading away one guy who has never pitched one inning above A-ball for players that would legitimately help out in a year when the Brewers have a great chance at the playoffs is not mortgaging the future. And I'm not even sure you'd have to give up Angel for sure.

You act as though this year is the only year you want the brewers to be good.

 

You're acting as if the Brewers have never had any pitchers who tore up the minors or lower minors either flame out or blow out their arms between there and MLB.

 

For the record, how many home-grown pitchers have the Brewers brought through the minors to have success in MLB in the last 10 years? The answer might surprise you.

 

Like pogokat said I don't think the upgrade really justifies mortgaging the farm.

 

And again, trading one or two prospects is NOT mortgaging the farm. When you also realize that you're potentially adding an additional 1st round pick and sandwich pick back into the fold in 2008, I think it makes it even less like mortgaging anything. And it should be worth pointing out that Salome did not have a great year at West Virginia in 06.

[paul253]

I believe Inman will be a chip that is traded to shore up part of this team around the trade deadline. My guess is for another arm in the pen.

 

In my opinion, Will Inman is way too good to be used to grab a bullpen pitcher at the deadline. This guy could be in Milwaukee's rotation the year after next, and he could be as dominating as we all think Gallardo might be. I dont think we trade our second best pitching prospect for a reliever. We can get a reliever for someone who isnt as highly touted, like Dillard.

[Tedaldtada]

Nice post PeaveyFury, I agree with everything you have said. I just wanted to add a few more points. Both these guys do not have horrible contracts, I believe both are free agents after this year. We get picks back when we lose guys like them as Peavey said. Also, I think it is very important to remember that Jermaine Dye is a serious threat to add to any lineup. He won a World Series MVP a few years back and finished in the top five in MVP voting LAST SEASON! Plus whoever said that Dye needs to be surrounded by better players in order to play well must not think that Prince Fielder and JJ Hardy are for real at all. I do not think I can express properly how much Dye would help this team. I'd even take Garland over Buehrle if meant we could add on Jermaine Dye.

[Mass Haas]

I believe Inman will be a chip that is traded to shore up part of this team around the trade deadline. My guess is for another arm in the pen.

 

People need to realize that Inman is on the same exact track as Yovani Gallardo -- a split-season in A+ / AA and then in Nashville to begin 2008.

 

The same way we're talking about Gallardo now, we'll be talking about Inman at this time next year.

 

And people want to use him to obtain bullpen help for two months?

 

Take any other pitcher you want to throw in the mix -- there's Gallardo / Inman, then Parra, then a wide chasm that will allow for such trade discussion.

[BraunsBoyfriend]

Sounds kind of silly to trade away a prospect like Inman who could potentially serve 6 or more great years with the team for a guy who will be gone this year.

[pogokat]

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People need to realize that Inman is on the same exact track as Yovani Gallardo -- a split-season in A+ / AA and then in Nashville to begin 2008.

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There are two differences between yo and inman:

 

1. yo throws about 1 mph faster on average

 

2. inman has been statistically better

 

in 110 innings in WV, will allowed 75 hits with 24 walks, all while k'ing 134

 

in 121 innings in WV, Yo allowed 100 hits, 51 walks, and k'ed 110

 

in 67 innings in BC, inman has allowed 50 hits and 18 walks, while k'ing 84

 

in 77 innings, yo allowed 54 hits, 23 walks and 103 k's...

 

as good as gallardo was at those two levels, inman has matched or bettered him in practically every way...Inman's only allowed 6 homers to yo's 9 as well...

 

so, in my mind the only difference between these two guys is 1 mph and a year...

 

i just don't think inman is tradeable unless you are getting david wright, miggy cabrera, or someone like that...i think i'd be furious if the brewers traded him for jermaine dye...

[PeaveyFury]

i think i'd be furious if the brewers traded him for jermaine dye...

 

I don't think anyone here is suggesting trading him for Dye, they're talking about trading him for the likes of Mark Buehrle or Adam Dunn. Though I agree the bullpen thing is a reach.

[Crewin06]

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The Brewers are built for the long haul...not to mortgage the future for 2 months worth of players.

 

Trading away one guy who has never pitched one inning above A-ball for players that would legitimately help out in a year when the Brewers have a great chance at the playoffs is not mortgaging the future. And I'm not even sure you'd have to give up Angel for sure.

 

 

 

And again, trading one or two prospects is NOT mortgaging the farm. When you also realize that you're potentially adding an additional 1st round pick and sandwich pick back into the fold in 2008, I think it makes it even less like mortgaging anything. And it should be worth pointing out that Salome did not have a great year at West Virginia in 06.

 

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If it is Inman straight up for Buerhle it is better but I still wouldn't do it. We have 3 top notch starting pitchers (Sheets, Cappy, Suppan) with 2 more starting pitchers that could be top notch by the end of the season (Vargas, Bush) with two more that would be starters on most staffs (Gallardo and Villanueva)

 

There isn't really a big need for another starting pitcher right now. Maybe that will change come the deadline but I don't think it will.

 

You're acting as if the Brewers have never had any pitchers who tore up the minors or lower minors either flame out or blow out their arms between there and MLB.

 

For the record, how many home-grown pitchers have the Brewers brought through the minors to have success in MLB in the last 10 years? The answer might surprise you.

 

You're also right that Milwaukee hasn't really produced a lot of pitching in the past and there has been some burnouts but before Hall, Fielder, Hart, Hardy, Weeks and Braun came to the majors Milwaukee hadn't produced to many hitters either.

 

So what do you do stop drafting? No you keep on plugging away. Villanueva made the majors and has done well. Yo could probably be starting in the majors this year. Just because other pitchers have burned out doesn't mean these two will.

 

 

 

And again, trading one or two prospects is NOT mortgaging the farm. When you also realize that you're potentially adding an additional 1st round pick and sandwich pick back into the fold in 2008, I think it makes it even less like mortgaging anything. And it should be worth pointing out that Salome did not have a great year at West Virginia in 06.

 

I agree we can afford to deal some prospects. And it isn't mortgaging the farm. However small market teams shouldn't deal top 20 prospects in all of minor league baseball for a 2 month rental and they definitely shouldn't deal 2 of their best 3 prospects for 2 two month rentals that don't really even fill a postional needs.

 

As for the two picks you are right. It could be a first rounder and a supplemental. But it could also just be a supplemental or a supplemental and a second or third rounder.

 

Either way whoever they draft probably won't have the ceiling that Inman or Gallardo have. Now they could, Dr. Z has been very good in the scouting department over the past couple years at unearthing 2-5th round picks. But it is unlikely.

 

Personally as of right now I don't really think they need to make a trade. The Brewers are stocked pretty well right now and look to be the clear cut favorite to win the division. After they make the playoffs it is a crapshoot in my opinion.

 

If they do make a trade I would like to see them deal players like Zach Jackson, Charlie Fermaint, Lorenzo Cain, or the Hurricane. Players that the Brewers have a surplus of their types in the minors and don't have the rediculous potential that Yo or Inman have.

[PeaveyFury]

So what do you do stop drafting?

 

Absolutely not. But hitters are usually easier to project than pitchers. The trade off is that if you hit on a pitcher, you've struck gold.

Villanueva made the majors and has done well. Yo could probably be starting in the majors this year. Just because other pitchers have burned out doesn't mean these two will.

 

Villanueva is not a home-grown Brewer prospect. And to answer my trivia question from before, if Yo comes up and is successful, then he's the SECOND Brewer pitcher to do so in the last 10 years. It isn't that they haven't produced a lot of pitching prospect success, it's that while they struck gold with Sheets, they've produced NONE besides him. And it might even be a longer period than that, but that's how far I looked back.

 

EDIT: After going back further, you really have to go back to 1994 and Steve Woodard to even find someone that you could call a kind of success.... and maybe even back to 93 and D'Amico otherwise. Even he had serious injury issues.

[Crewin06]

Villanueva came to this franchise as a 20 year old without ever even playing in A- ball. I think he is pretty much home grown.

 

As for no pitchers making it to the majors recently. Fine but the brewers haven't produced a lot of position players either before the Hardy, Fielder, Weeks, Braun, Hart barage the last couple of years. So it pretty much boils down to the brewers not being to good at drafting and developing players during the 1990's.

 

And just because we sucked at drafting and developing players in the past doesn't mean we are going to continue to be aweful at it.

 

Again the brewers had pitching prospects before, but they have never had these type of pitching prospects (Inman and YO). I would rather stick with them and try to develop them than trade them away for instant satisfaction that won't really create that much of an upgrade.

[PeaveyFury]

As for no pitchers making it to the majors recently. Fine but the brewers haven't produced a lot of position players either

 

Well, since 1993 in terms of position players, you have:

 

Mark Loretta, Geoff Jenkins, Bill Hall, Ron Belliard, Corey Hart, Prince Fielder, JJ Hardy, Rickie Weeks, Tony Gwynn, Ryan Braun.

 

In terms of pitchers, you have:

 

Ben Sheets.

 

Ouch.

 

And just because we sucked at drafting and developing players in the past doesn't mean we are going to continue to be aweful at it.

 

How about recently? Mike Jones, Manny Parra, Ben Hendrickson, Dana Eveland were all highly touted pitching prospects under this administration. Things haven't exactly worked out well in those aspects. And that doesn't even mention Mark Rogers, who's career never really got off the ground to the point where he was very highly touted to this point.

 

What highly touted position players have flamed out? Dave Krynzel.

 

I would rather stick with them and try to develop them than trade them away for instant satisfaction that won't really create that much of an upgrade.

 

I guess that's where the conversation starts and ends, then. If you don't see Mark Buehrle as much of an upgrade over Claudio Vargas, or Adam Dunn as much of an upgrade over Jenkins/Mench, than I don't know what to tell you.

[tigerbrew]

Like Yo and CV, Inman is untouchable to me. I like the way he pitch and I love his style. I would very much like to see him, Yo and CV with the Brewers for a long time.

[DHonks]

Peavey,

 

we did produce Jeff D'Amico. He was rather solid in the big leagues, too.

 

Scott Karl's career was solid for a 4-man, although I don't understand why he gave it up, unless he had his money and had lost the drive.