Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes

[bacon06]

I was one of those gifted students growing up and I can remember in the 3rd grade, spending most of the class work time being asked to help out the 'slower' students in the class. I wasn't really a fan of this because all the material came easy to me and I didn't have the patience to explain it to someone who didn't get it at the same speed. My mom thought this did more to hold me back than help the slower kids move forward, and I tend to agree.

 

As for teachers and adults not being able to make children feel 'put on the spot' or 'singled out' for being inferior to others, I had a teacher in 8th grade who on a couple of quizzes, which were corrected by other students, polled the class to find out the worst answer someone put down. There were things like Cap'n Crunch was the general for the Southern army in the Civil War and answers like that. It was really funny.

 

In regards to grades, my science teacher sophomore year of high school taught me that it isn't the letter grade you receive but what you learn that matters. My mom had a hard time accepting this idea because she thought I should be a straight A student, but I fully embraced it. Students today are too fixated on the letter grade that they disregard actually learning something from a class, the real reason they are in school.

 

Why people skip class is something I may never understand. They are paying money to go to school, or maybe their parents are, but someone is still financing their education, which does not come cheap these days.

[wOOgiE22]

Currently I am in my last year at UWO and finishing up my undergrad work. On a day to day basis I do not really see these problems occurring in my major. I think it may have to do with my major being extremely competitive (where I am in it) and the expectations our professors have on us. I still remember our professors giving us a "reality check" before getting accepted within our major, saying that they would push us hard and that getting this degree wouldn't be easy. They explained in detail the level of classes which we had to take and that they required time and effort on our parts. This prepared me in a great way because I understood the effort I needed to put in to get the grade I deserved. I appreciated this because it showed me they were going to put the effort into the students and the only thing I could do was display that much effort back at them. After looking at my major's grade requirements it is the basic, you need at C or better in all your classes to "pass" and need a B or better in one class to move on. However, you need a 2.75 overall GPA in the major to graduate compared to other majors on campus where a 2.0 is required. Personally, I think this is a good thing for students because it sets the bar high enough (near a B) where they have to work to get grades in order to graduate.

 

School has never been a problem for me and growing up, as my parents never had to push me to do my work. However, they always instilled the expectation that anything lower than a B was unacceptable because they knew my potential, which transferred to me. I would get frustrated in myself if I did not get an A in a class, which they would tell me that as long as you put all the effort in that you could then the grade you got was fine. However, the problem that I had in school was a motivation factor towards my senior year and first year of college. I never needed to study in high school and could pull off A's pretty easy, however, I transferred this method to my first year of college and got hit with a dose of reality. I got a 3.0 my first semester, which was the lowest GPA I ever got. This factor actually pushed me to reevaluate my study methods and haven't had a GPA lower than 3.8 since. I think that students need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming others for them. If you do the work your supposed to do and put the time and effort in that you are supposed to, then grades should not be a problem for most. It is just that others do not have this mental makeup and expect everything to be handed to them on a platter, which frustrates me; nothing in life is given to you, you have to work for it!

[Fatter than Joey]

My mom thought this did more to hold me back than help the slower kids move forward, and I tend to agree.

 

I gained a greater understanding about engineering principles, when I started tutoring other people, than when I took the classes the first time.

 

Perhaps in your specific case your mom is right, but in general, when you teach something, you do enhance your own understanding of a subject matter.

[bacon06]

My mom thought this did more to hold me back than help the slower kids move forward, and I tend to agree.

 

I gained a greater understanding about engineering principles, when I started tutoring other people, than when I took the classes the first time.

 

Perhaps in your specific case your mom is right, but in general, when you teach something, you do enhance your own understanding of a subject matter.

I completely agree, but as a 9 year old, it didn't help me understand multiplication any better.

[RU Rah Rah]

My student also don't know how to take notes, or simply don't want to.

[RyDogg66]

My student also don't know how to take notes, or simply don't want to.

My wife was just saying the same thing this week. They dont know that they are "supposed" to. It is probably because high school has gotten too easy and is a fricking joke.

[Jimbo]

My old school moment was the first day of my first class freshman year. The prof announced "If you go skiiing in Colorado and miss the final, you will FAIL. If you miss the final because you will be playing football in a bowl game, you will FAIL."

(emphasis mine)

 

Oh, Jimbo, I know when you went to school here. Was the prof actually talking about a football bowl game with a straight face? Or was he remembering the relative glory of whatever the most recent z-list bowl the Badgers had played in a few years before? (Garden State or whatever; I know you'll correct me)

 

Yes, a straight face. Wisconsin went to bowl games two of the previous four seasons (when there weren't as many and going bowling was a bigger deal). Anyhow, he was serious. As it turns out, the Badgers had some possible bowl invitations that fall and Chancellor Shain stated "No bowl games during ethe xam week." It was a mini-controversy with the media and public, but in the end didn't matter because they got a post-exam bowl.

[nate82]

My student also don't know how to take notes, or simply don't want to.

My wife was just saying the same thing this week. They dont know that they are "supposed" to. It is probably because high school has gotten too easy and is a fricking joke.

Note taking isn't something that is always taught in high school. Some people in college have no idea how to even take notes effectively in class. The hardest part for me in classes was the note taking at times since I write so slow. Also most students try and take notes word for word instead of using short cuts in their notes.

 

I know most colleges offer first year classes for students to take but most students don't take advantage of these classes. I am sold on that the majority of the students in college do not know how to take notes effectively and thus they do not take any notes or the notes they take don't really help them in learning the material.

[statman0007]

I would agree that note-taking is becoming a lost art, but I also believe that powerpoint presentations are a necessary evil in some classes at the university level. Given the shear volume of complex information presented in some classes, I believe that it is much more effective to have the major points provided and to supplement them with your own note-taking. I feel like if powerpoints weren't provided I would spent the whole lecture frantically writing rather than trying to comprehend the material.

[RyDogg66]

I would agree that note-taking is becoming a lost art, but I also believe that powerpoint presentations are a necessary evil in some classes at the university level. Given the shear volume of complex information presented in some classes, I believe that it is much more effective to have the major points provided and to supplement them with your own note-taking. I feel like if powerpoints weren't provided I would spent the whole lecture frantically writing rather than trying to comprehend the material.

Stuff like science, math and politics havent gotten any more complicated than they were in the 1940s and 1950s when Powerpoint didnt exist. I have never found powerpoints to be useful and I would imagine that most students DONT supplement them and try to use the PP as the notes, which is why they suffer.

[nate82]

Stuff like science, math and politics havent gotten any more complicated than they were in the 1940s and 1950s when Powerpoint didnt exist. I have never found powerpoints to be useful and I would imagine that most students DONT supplement them and try to use the PP as the notes, which is why they suffer.

I agree with math, science, and politics not getting any more complicated than they were in the 1940s and 1950s. But it does depend on the science and math though. Most math is done using computers today and there are still a large percentage of people who don't really know how to use the programs associated with the math and science programs not to mention the computer itself. The different kinds of science like computer science and even advanced stats classes can use PowerPoint which can actually help the teacher more so than the student. For a matter of fact all of my stats classes in college used PowerPoint exclusively.

 

In business classes PowerPoint is a must. There is so many things you have to go over in business classes PowerPoint doesn't even help lower the amount of reading you need to do in the classes. It does help in making the classes more efficient and I'm willing to bet political classes that use PowerPoint are more efficient in how they are ran.

 

When I was in college I only had about 6 classes where PowerPoint wasn't used at all. My 4 literature classes and my 2 classes in Spanish. The two history classes I took even had PowerPoint presentations. PowerPoint does help the student a lot but the benefit is more so in the teachers favor.

 

The PowerPoint slides that I used and received from my teachers I used as big note cards since it was nearly impossible for me take all the notes I needed to study. I would say the majority of the people in my business classes used them in the same way.

[PKBadger]

The adoption of Powerpoint by UW lecturers is directly correlated to the number of Herald crosswords that I was able to complete during my 4 years.

 

Oh, Rocky the Herald Raccoon, your zany quips sure do break up the malaise of Marketing 300.

[giffted1]

I think in some cases PowerPoint does more harm than good, specifically in courses where professors provide the students with PowerPoint files. In those courses it seems that more people skip or just zone out because they think they'll just use the PowerPoint as their notes.

[logan82]

It is probably because high school has gotten too easy and is a fricking joke.

 

High school has been a joke since I went 15 years ago. I got a B in a class where 50% of the grade was based on an in class report which I turned in the written part 3 months late with no penalty. I skated through high school turning in assignments late on a regular basis and doing well on tests. We had 2 math classes where the tests were done in groups.(geometry and trigonometry/precalculus ) I can honestly say that most of what I learned in high school is useless.

[RU Rah Rah]

I think in some cases PowerPoint does more harm than good, specifically in courses where professors provide the students with PowerPoint files. In those courses it seems that more people skip or just zone out because they think they'll just use the PowerPoint as their notes.

This is exactly why I don't send out the slides, or post them online.

[RyDogg66]

I think in some cases PowerPoint does more harm than good, specifically in courses where professors provide the students with PowerPoint files. In those courses it seems that more people skip or just zone out because they think they'll just use the PowerPoint as their notes.

That is exactly the point I was trying to make on the last page.

 

Also, my wife informed me tonight that the next "new thing" is going to be professors recording their lectures and creating podcasts for students to download. Needless to say she is opposed.

[logan82]

RyDogg66 wrote:

Also, my wife informed me tonight that the next "new thing" is going to be professors recording their lectures and creating podcasts for students to download. Needless to say she is opposed.

Now we know the next big thing on Youtube. What's the point of even having a brick and mortar school if they are gong to record lectures? I can see this recording of lectures for online schiils.

[Glennron]

I have only one class where it's all PowerPoint, and the professor hands out the slides in addition to this. Needless to say, attendance on Fridays at 11:00 is usually around 50%, with plenty of people zoning out because they can just read over the slides later before the exam.

[nate82]

Now we know the next big thing on Youtube. What's the point of even having a brick and mortar school if they are gong to record lectures? I can see this recording of lectures for online schiils.

I don't see a problem with that at all. The cost savings that it would create would make this idea become a reality rather quickly. With schools looking to cut costs I could see this becoming a reality. I doubt it would become feasible but I bet you will see some of the bigger schools try this and the online schools are already doing this. ITT Tech and the other schools like them already have this as an option I believe.

 

I'm not really for this or against this. With the ever rising costs of school tuition and the actual cost of running a university I wouldn't be surprised at all if this happened in the near future. There still would be buildings and classes held in those buildings but I could see online and podcast lectures becoming more popular as the technology advances. Change is going to happen like it or not. I doubt many teachers really liked computers when they were first introduced into the class room. But yet here we are now with computers in nearly every single kind of classroom.

[logan82]

It would certainly help schools increase their enrollment and income without much money investment. Hopefully it would also curb the state funded building of, well, more buildings.

[statman0007]

I think in some cases PowerPoint does more harm than good, specifically in courses where professors provide the students with PowerPoint files. In those courses it seems that more people skip or just zone out because they think they'll just use the PowerPoint as their notes.

This is exactly why I don't send out the slides, or post them online.

Sure, some students are probably more likely to skip if powerpoints are provided, but I think that it would come back to hurt those students in the long run. I think the key is to make the students apply the topics that are being presented. Sure, if the tests are straight facts out of the slides than people are going to zone out or not even come, but if the tests force the students to apply the concepts taught then attendance and attention are necessary. I know that for many of my classes the tests could practically be open note and still be challenging because they require a level of critical thinking and problem solving that goes beyond the powerpoint slides.

 

That said, I do think it matters what type of course it is for whether making powerpoints available is necessary or not. It all depends on the subject matter to me.

[mothershipconnection]

I don't like the idea of putting powerpoints or podcasts online. Just go to your classes and stop looking for the easy way out. I also loathe how watered down education has become through technology. I mean, you don't even need to show up to get a degree anymore, and they can let everyone in because distance education is incredibly easy to administer and without physical limitations. you just record lectures and email everyone a syllabus and then have them submit multiple choice assignments for your TA's to grade. As a professor of mine once said in anger over online schools "fine, screw it, we'll just shut every school down and we'll have one university and everyone will get a degree from Harvard".

 

I'm all for everyone getting educated, but admitting anyone and everyone to online programs that result in a degree many can't discriminate on paper from legit degrees is very troubling.

[thablingster]

I could go on all day about student expectations and how many of them are unreasonable, ridiculous, and frustrating, but I think the majority of those topics have already been covered.

 

As far as online college goes, online college is a vastly growing and competitive industry. When the classes and administration are implemented well it can be just as difficult, rigorous, and thorough, if not moreso, than a traditional classroom setting. There are several online colleges which now meet the standards to receive Federal Student Aid, which is a boon for students, especially in these economic times where borrowing a cumbersome Sallie Mae or other alternative Loan is not an attractive option. Not every online institution is a sleazy scam to get a student's money, but those are mostly the ones you see on TV at 3am.

 

Another consideration of online schools is that while they do get their share of traditional aged 18-24 year old students, the majority of students are non-traditonal, low socioeconomic status, working adults. Many students who do online college are single parents who work full time jobs. Others are baby boomers coming back to school due to the economy or having an urge to accomplish a diploma or degree. Generally, online schools aren't dipping much into the pool of students traditional ground campuses will land. As the negative stigma of online college eventually fades I think more traditional aged students may try it, but for now it is still very heavily non-traditional as far as age and status.

 

The number one expectation students have about Online College which is completely wrong is that it will be "easier". This is not the case. While online college does give a student flexability as to when they log into classes and when during the week they can complete their homework, online college relies just as heavily upon the student as a traditional campus does to take responsibility and initiative for themselves, their actions, and their success. I often find myself telling students that while in a traditional classroom, if the teacher sees blank stares on the faces of all the students they can back up and reiterate information, but in an online environment, the instructor has no way to know if a student is struggling unless that student takes the initiative to contact the instructor to let them know. Students also need to be responsible to ensure they will always have internet, a functional computer, and the foresight to be proactive about their education instead of reactive when life happens (e.g.: internet/computer failure, illness, death, weather). There are a lot of great things going on in online education, and there is a lot of room for growth, but I am overall hopeful for the future success of online education as a viable education alternative.

[RyDogg66]

How do in depth classroom discussions work where the professor poses issues or questions and the students debate them, ask their own questions and develop critical thinking skills needed in the workplace?

[Invader3K]

I don't think all online courses are as easy as some of you are making it out to be.