Batting Order to start the 2009 season

[SoundsFan17]

When Lamb is in

 

Weeks

Lamb

Braun

Fielder

Hardy

Hart

Cameron

Kendall

Pitcher

 

When Hall is in

 

Weeks

Hardy

Braun

Fielder

Cameron

Hart

Hall

Kendall

Pitcher

I agreee with this, this seems to make the most sense, barring any other injury/ AAA replacement

[owbc]

I know it would never happen, but I would like to see the higher OPS guys moved up to get those extra few dozen ABs over the course of the season. At the same time, the #1 spot should be a guy with a high OBP and speed, since having runners on base seems to disrupt the pitcher (maybe someone has a stat on pitchers' performance with runners on vs. bases empty).

 

Weeks

Braun

Fielder

Hardy

Cameron

Hart

Hall/Lamb

Kendall

Pitcher

[Gobias Industries]

I'd love to see Braun in the 2 hole, but I think Macha is just too old-school to do that. A lineup I'd like to see that I think is somewhat realistic would be:

 

Hart

Hardy

Braun

Fielder

Cameron

Hall

Weeks

Kendall

 

I don't want Weeks getting the most PA's when he's one of our worst hitters. And he basically admitted this offseason that he doesn't like leading off, so might as well get him out of there.

[RobDeer 45]

Gobias - When did weeks admidt that? Never heard that info and that makes me nervous now. If he doesn't have the mind set to be in there then we should be looking at other options. I'm still thinking we should give him another chance, if he wants it. I'm still about Hardy batting 1 but I think I'm the only one who likes that idea.

[Gobias Industries]

It was more or less him talking about how he really struggles with the passive/aggressiveness of the role. And Melvin also spoke candidly about it a month or so back as well. He's never said "I want out of the role" or anything like that though.

[zzzmanwitz]

I getting really sick of that statement. You are the leadoff hitter ONCE a game. The rest of the game, you are just a hitter.

[patrickgpe]

I getting really sick of that statement. You are the leadoff hitter ONCE a game. The rest of the game, you are just a hitter.

 

thats true but when you bat leadoff as opposed to 8th, you will get an extra AB almost every single game. Therefore I'd rather have a high OBP guy as opposed to batting Cameron or Kendall. I still think Weeks is the best option of the bunch followed closely by Hart. While I know we have a new manager and we want to change things up, I'd use the designated Ned lineup.

 

Weeks

Hardy

Braun

Fielder

Hart

Cameron

Weeks

Kendall

P

[zzzmanwitz]

thats true but when you bat leadoff as opposed to 8th, you will get an extra AB almost every single game.

 

By that argument, we should just bat people in order of how good they are, basically ranking them by OPS.

 

Braun

Fielder

Cameron

Hardy

Hart

Weeks

3B

Kendall

Pitcher

[Never Outhustled]

I can not understand why so many want to bat Hardy 2nd and Hart 5th. They're basically the same hitter, but Hardy is slow, while Hart has awesome speed. It makes the most sense to give your best baserunners the oppurtunity to run the bases more by putting them in front of your best hitters.

 

1. Weeks

2. Hart

3. Braun

4. Fielder

5. Hardy

6. Cameron

7. Hall/Lamb

8. Kendall

[patrickgpe]

By that argument, we should just bat people in order of how good they are, basically ranking them by OPS.

 

obviously there is some credence to that argument, but you still don't want to put your 2 best power hitters in a situation where they rarely will have people on base.I'd use obp over ops. so a better statistical lineup would be:

 

Fielder .372

Hardy .343

Weeks .342

Braun .335

Cameron .331

Kendall .327

Hart .300

Hall .293 / Lamb

 

this looks more like a real lineup if you would switch Weeks and Fielder and Kendall and Hart.

[Ennder]

I can not understand why so many want to bat Hardy 2nd and Hart 5th. They're basically the same hitter, but Hardy is slow, while Hart has awesome speed.

 

Hardy has better plate discipline than Hart so will likely get on base more. Hardy is also known as a big time fastball hitter and if any part of protection is actually true (which it may not be) the part about getting more fastballs in front of good hitters is probably the biggest reason. I think they are fine the way they are.

[Never Outhustled]

Hardy has better plate discipline than Hart so will likely get on base more.

That statement is factless. I think everyone expects Hart to bounce back from his poor 2nd half last year. In 2007, Hart's OBA was 353, higher than Hardy has had in any season as a pro, majors or minors.

Hardy is also known as a big time fastball hitter and if any part of protection is actually true (which it may not be) the part about getting more fastballs in front of good hitters is probably the biggest reason.

Hart is a bigtime fastball hitter too. Any added benifit Hardy would have batting 2nd Hart would reep too.

[Ennder]

That statement is factless. I think everyone expects Hart to bounce back from his poor 2nd half last year. In 2007, Hart's OBA was 353, higher than Hardy has had in any season as a pro, majors or minors.

 

Hardy's BB% is 8.1% in his career, his K% is 14.6% and he has 0.6 BB/K.

Hart's BB% is 5.7% in his career, his K% is 19.7% and he has 0.31 BB/K.

 

Hardy has better plate discipline. Hart's OBP in 2007 was heavily driven by a .327 BABIP and an ISO outside of his expected values from the majors and minors.

 

My money is still on Hardy having a better OBP and Hart having a better ISO in 2009.

[Never Outhustled]

My money is still on Hardy having a better OBP

So you expect Hardy to again put up a higher than normal BABIP, like he did last season when he posted a career high in OBA? The more likely scenario is Hart stops refusing to walk, and then the rest of his numbers return to normal. Normal includes a higher OBA than Hardy. 2007 wasn't even a career high BABIP for Hart, so expecting a low BABIP from him isn't realistic.

[Ennder]

I'm saying since Hardy(.329) has a better career OBP than Hart(.323) and because Hardy has shown a better growth pattern in OBP and because Hardy has better plate discipline and because Hardy's career OBP is partially suppressed by that first half a season where he hit like crap. I'd say all signs point to Hardy having a slight advantage in OBP.

 

Hart also has clearly shown more power in his career overall and I'd rather see that higher SLG down in the lineup than up in it.

 

I'm of the opinion that Hardy is still to this day underrated mostly because of his first 194 PA in the majors where he put up a lne of .181/.284/.259/.543 and should have been in the minors.

 

From July 3rd 2005 until today Hardy has a line of...

 

.280/.334/.466/.800 and has shown improvement pretty much every year.

[Never Outhustled]

Hart also has clearly shown more power in his career overall and I'd rather see that higher SLG down in the lineup than up in it.

Except that Hardy just outslugged Hart last year. Of course, we could throw out last years stats, but that would then show Hart to be the better OBA guy.

 

Hart had a better OBA by 30 points in 2006 and 2007, and had higher OBAs in the minors. Last season was likely an outlier for Hart.

 

Like I said in my original post, both players are similar hitters, and it makes perfect sense to put the 1 with awesome speed in the #2 spot of the lineup.

[valpocrewsader]

You are the leadoff hitter ONCE a game. The rest of the game, you are just a hitter.

Is there somewhere to look up the stats on how many times a player lead off any inning? I'd like to take Weeks' figure in that category, subtract his games started, and compare that to the rest of our hitters. I think he'd still lead the team. The 4th inning is probably lead off by the #1 hitter more than any other spot in the lineup (maybe not, just guessing) and in the NL I have to think the pitcher is making lots of final outs in previous innings.

[kramnoj]

Leading off an inning other than the 1st inning, per baseball-reference.com on individual player splits.

 

Weeks 119 PA

Kendall 126 PA

Fielder 178 PA

Hall 99 PA

Hardy 120 PA

Braun 113 PA

Cameron 121 PA

Hart 128 PA

[rluzinski]

Marcel projections:

 

Hardy: .278/.336/.459/.795

Hart: .280/.329/.483/.812

 

CHONE has them very similar as well. I'd be tempted to put Hart's SLG at #5 but I doubt it really matters much.

[Never Outhustled]

James has both at identical 336 OBAs, Hart with a little higher slugging. However, he has Hardy with more HRs. I think I'd prefer Hart setting the table with more doubles, Hardy cleaning things up with the longball, and I've said repeatedly that Hart's speed belongs in the #2 spot.

[logan82]

It makes the most sense to give your best baserunners the oppurtunity to run the bases more by putting them in front of your best hitters.

 

I somewhat disagree with this. You don't want outs on the bases in front of your best hitters. The ability to move on the bases is more important in front of bad hitters as opposed to in front of your good hitters especially sluggers like Fielder and Braun.

[Never Outhustled]

You don't want outs on the bases in front of your best hitters

Who said anything about stealing bases. I'm talking about scoring on singles, going 1st to 3rd, scoring on flyballs. Also, Weeks and Hart are incredibly efficient basestealers. Its simply giving us the best chance to score runs.

 

Are you really suggesting we put our slowest runners 1 &2 in the batting order?

 

The ability to move on the bases is more important in front of bad hitters

So you want to risk making outs in front of the pitcher and haave the pitcher leadoff more innings? I think its important to turn the lineup over when the oppurtunity is there.

[logan82]

Weeks and Hardy are hardly slow runners.

 

I would much rather see small ball played in the bottom portion of the lineup than the top. Speed seems more important when you have guys who are likely to be hitting singles(Kendall, pitcher) than in front of guys who are likely to be getting extra base hits(Braun, Fielder).

[valpocrewsader]

Weeks and Hardy are hardly slow runners.

I would call Hardy slow, and definitely nothing better than average. On a scale of 1 to 10 he's probably a 4 or 5? Weeks probably a 7 or 8?

[mletto157]

I believe it was last year or a couple years ago when they tested speed and for some reason I remember Hardy being one of the fastest Brewers. I could be wrong though, I can't find the data to back it up.