Brewers claim SP Nick Green on waivers from Angels; DFA RP Luis Pena; Latest-- Pena claimed by the Mariners (reply #61)

[agent39]

I'd think if Pena starts out strong and someone in the pen falters, there's a great chance Pena is called up before June.

He would have to be added to the roster in order to be called up in june which seems mildly unlikely since he was just removed from the roster.

[PeaveyFury]

He would have to be added to the roster in order to be called up in june which seems mildly unlikely since he was just removed from the roster.

 

That's certainly a good point, but there are always major injuries for every team by a couple of months into the season, and I think with a hot start, Pena would be a great candidate to be added back on if someone hit the 60-day DL. Especially because there's not a lot of bullpen types on the 40 man slated to be in AAA, unless they're willing to call up someone like Green or Wright to be in the pen instead of starting.

[agent39]

...I think with a hot start, Pena would be a great candidate to be added back on if someone hit the 60-day DL....

I think they would probably be more inclined to call up someone already on the roster in lieu of burning Pena's last option. Plus, hypothetically, he could just go somewhere that has openings available in spring training instead of just hoping for an injury. We'll see what happens.

[JJHardy7]

While there are probably better situations out there, I would think that Josh and Pena would look at the Brewer roster and realize that while there may be a number of options for the Brewers in the pen this year, there's not a whole heck of a lot of them that don't have major question marks. I'd think if Pena starts out strong and someone in the pen falters, there's a great chance Pena is called up before June.

 

I agree with what you're saying PF. I just think Pena may not have to 'wait' on injuries or bad performances of others to get to the bigs. I'm not saying Pena is perfect, but from what I've seen first hand he has a great arm. It may be a coach or an adjustment and this guy is easily a MLB pitcher. That's why I think another team will roll the dice on him. If Pena is a Brewer somehow, I'll be excited. I just don't think that will happen. He was the wrong guy to remove from the 40-man and hopefully they can at least trade him and get some value. The major thing that bothers me about this is Pena has been with the Brewers what seems like forever -- why dump him and not some others on the 40-man? Were the Brewers wrong on him for so long? Gwynn should've been removed and that is a slam dunk. If an injury happens, Gwynn Jr.s grow on trees. He'd be easy to replace via free agent and if not trading a low level prospect would probably bring back more than a Gwynn Jr.

[kramnoj]

Gwynn should've been removed and that is a slam dunk. If an injury happens, Gwynn Jr.s grow on trees. He'd be easy to replace via free agent and if not trading a low level prospect would probably bring back more than a Gwynn Jr.

 

If Cameron goes down for a month, what do you do? Make Nelson or Irribarren a full time OF? If you go acquire another OF, then you need to remove someone from the 40 man anyway.

 

It would be hard to argue that someone like DeFelice has more future value than Pena, but the Brewers clearly feel that DiFelice is better insurance for 2009 than Pena is.

[logan82]

agent39 wrote:

I think they would probably be more inclined to call up someone already on the roster in lieu of burning Pena's last option.

I thought he would use an option even if he isn't called up.

[1992casey]

Peña would be off the 40-man roster, so he wouldn't use an option until he's called up and sent back down.

[JJHardy7]

If Cameron goes down for a month, what do you do? Make Nelson or Irribarren a full time OF? If you go acquire another OF, then you need to remove someone from the 40 man anyway.

 

You sign a free agent or trade a low level prospect. You do get to keep a guy like Pena on the 40 man who has more potential than Gwynn. I guess the way I think about is this...if the Brewers traded Gwynn right now, what could they get? My guess is not much and that's why it's easy to worry about this thing if something happens. They do already have options in the minors to replace Gwynn. What's wrong with Irribarren? Gwynn doesn't have a MLB bat IMO and can be replaced.

[mothershipconnection]

If Cameron goes down for a month, what do you do? Make Nelson or Irribarren a full time OF? If you go acquire another OF, then you need to remove someone from the 40 man anyway.

 

Laynce Nix could be brought back for next to nothing, like other AAAA OF's. If Cameron goes down for any time, they'd need to remove Gwynn to bring in someone less embarrassing anyway. I agree with others that it'd be smartest to keep a potentially useful RP and worry about a Cameron injury if it happens.

[kramnoj]

You sign a free agent or trade a low level prospect.

 

What FA do you sign during the season? Why risk trading away a prospect, when you could have saved yourself the trouble by keeping the needed depth in the first place? Why put yourself at the mercy of another team that knows you are desperate and need to acquire a player?

 

What's wrong with Irribarren?

 

He's played less than a season's worth of games in the OF.

 

Right now it looks like Pena was maybe 12th on the depth chart for RP for the Brewers. I don't doubt that the ceiling for Pena is higher than Gwynn, but in terms of utility for the Brewers for the near future, it was lower.

[monty57]

There are currently only 4 OFs on the Brewers' 40-man roster. Unless that changes, Gwynn isn't going anywhere. In fact, he will probably start the season on the Brewers' 25-man roster as their 4th OF and see a lot more at bats than most of us would like him to get. I hoped the Brewers would use some of their excess of RP to land a decent 4th OF, but unless and until that happens, Gwynn is most likely a Brewer in 2009.

I know Nelson could play corner OF if necessary, but I don't know if his bat is good enough to make up for his defensive deficiancies. Iribarren played OF last year as well, but is his bat better than Gwynn's? Nixon's past his prime, but is really the only other realistic option to open the Brewers' season as an OF. If so, we'd have to DFA someone else. Our backup OF situation really isn't too good at the moment, so I'm not surprised at all that it was a RP that was DFA'd. I just knew how high some were on Pena's raw ability, so I was somewhat surprised to see him let go. As someone else mentioned, I hope they're able to put together a minor trade and pick up something for him.

[agent39]

Luis Pena as expected was claimed by seattle

[JJHardy7]

kramnoj - the real question is how much do you value Gwynn? If he's a 4th or 5th OF, he should be had for little in terms of a trade. I'm not talking about trading a top 20 prospect. In terms of free agents, I agree with mothership. I'd much rather have Nix than Gwynn and it'd be easy to get Nix.

 

Or what about this...say the Brewers sign a OF free agent right now...that makes Gwynn useless. Just because he's one of the only OFs on the 40-man doesn't increase his value. The Brewers have OFs better than Gwynn IMO that aren't on the 40 man. It's similar to saying Favre's backups during his time in Green Bay were good because they were #2 qbs in the NFL...there were scrubs behind him (most of the time) and it didn't matter because they never played. Should Cameron go out for a long period I highly doubt Gwynn starts all the games if the Brewers are in a playoff race.

 

Edit - Jack Z. strikes again. Again, I'm not saying Pena is going to lead the league in saves this year, but IMO you don't get rid of power arms. Bad move by the Brewers...I think Pena's ceiling > Green's.

[TheCrew07]

Luis Pena as expected was claimed by seattle

Jack Z. you're ticking me off.

[kramnoj]

In terms of free agents, I agree with mothership. I'd much rather have Nix than Gwynn and it'd be easy to get Nix.

 

That's fine. But you still need to clear a spot on the 40-man for him when you need him. And the team is going to need a 4th OF. This isn't about Gwynn specifically. This is about managing a 40 man roster and planning for the injuries that will occur over the course of a season. I don't think Gwynn is all that valuable, but for all the players that are in the Brewers system, I think Gwynn is the best backup at CF for a stint that would cover a 15 day DL visit. It's certainly better to use him for a short stint than call up Cain too early.

 

The Brewers have OFs better than Gwynn IMO that aren't on the 40 man.

 

I don't understand how this is relevant. If they have to be used, they get added to the 40-man, and you then you have to remove someone.

[crewcrazy]

I doubt losing Pena is going to be a huge blow, but even if he does put it together at least it'll be in the AL (and for a pretty bad team currently). Best of luck to him.

[JJHardy7]

I don't understand how this is relevant. If they have to be used, they get added to the 40-man, and you then you have to remove someone.

 

You don't have to make the move unless you're 'forced' to make the move. That's my point. We can sit here all day and talk about injuries, but as of now there aren't any. Nelson can play the OF in a pinch so you keep him on the 25 man roster. That gives you a much better bat than Gwynn and a better pinch hitter. If an OF goes down for a period of time, you make a move then. There's not need to 'save' Gwynn should something happen. I'd be fine with letting go of a guy like Pena if the Brewers had to due to injury...that's part of the game. The Brewers didn't have to let him go and that's the problem I have with this. It's also very 'un-Melvin' like since the Brewers have been pretty big on power arms during his tenure. I think we need to sit back and look at Green. I just can't see how Green is better than Pena. Again, if we signed a nice free agent or had to make a move...fine. We didn't have to do this and the Brewers screwed up on this one. If anything, Pena had trade value last off-season and this also goes along with my theory that the Brewers don't develop pitchers/assess talent properly. Pena and Sarfate both were let go for nothing, but they both had 'prospect' status at one point.

[agent39]

Luis is relieved this is over with. I think everyone is going to be surprised what he can do with seattle. We were stunned he was taken off the roster but it's a great chance for him now.

[kramnoj]

Looking at the ZiPs projections and the depth chart for the Mariners on mlb.com, Pena might be the 7th best RP for the Mariners, so I think it's safe to guess he will see major league action for them this season.

[JJHardy7]

Luis is relieved this is over with. I think everyone is going to be surprised what he can do with seattle. We were stunned he was taken off the roster but it's a great chance for him now.

 

Josh - do you know why he struggled a bit last year? Was it related to any 'tinkering' from the pitching staff? Thanks as always for your knowledge.

[agent39]

Josh - do you know why he struggled a bit last year? Was it related to any 'tinkering' from the pitching staff? Thanks as always for your knowledge.

Just one of those things. Still surprised he was the guy taken off the roster. I think you could just chalk it up to an off year.

[RyDogg66]

I hate losing guys like Pena. Luckily, most of the guys who we have lost who are like Pena have turned into Jorge De La Rosa, at best.

[Hammer]

Remember that the mark of a good team is having to cut guys loose that you wouldn't have in your lean years...

[YostInfection]

I was on the bleachers next to Melvin, Witrado and Haudricourt yesterday watching the pitchers bunt, and heard them discuss the Pena situation. According to Doug, he (Pena) is really sad to leave the organization because of the time he spent here and was really hoping to make his mark with our big-league club - and thought this could have been the year.

 

But it sounds like he will have a great chance to stick with the M's, and as Josh alluded to, is excited to get that shot. Good luck to Luis.

[agent39]

I dont think sad is an accurate description of how he's feeling at all. Relieved is much more like it. Definitely not sad. He knows tons of players in seattle including.... ryan,stocker,crabbe,moss, and one of my other clients brito.