Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

http://www.jsonline.com/business/39488397.html

 

OK - I am one of the biggest Bud Selig apologists around, I am strongly against steroid use and the effect it has had on the legacy and records of the game, AND I'm pretty sure it's not April fools day yet...

 

But WHAT?! I don't understand how this would even work. Is it just the asterisk, or is he actually talking about erasing Bonds from the record books completely?

 

To say this is a slippery slope is an understatement... I don't see how this could work at all.

[craigharmann]

Anyone checking on Bud's senility? Really? Sadly, like it or not, Bonds HAS hit more homers than Hank. What's next? Reinstating Ty Cobb as the all-time hits leader? I don't get it.

[brewcrew00]

Yea, now I like Bud, but this would be an insanely crazy mistake.

[Crewin06]

Steroids brought the fans back, they were in everybody's face, and baseball accepted it because they were making more money. Now that everybody is against steroids and baseball is doing well baseball is trying to out the people they once championed and brought the fans back.

Maybe Bud just didn't have the power and maybe the Players Union is to strong, but the strike did happen, the Steroid Era did happen, they are parts of the games history that the main principles in the sport allowed to happen and can't be swept under the rug by turning a blind eye.

It is pretty much assumed that almost everybody was using sometime in the 1990's-mid 2000's, You cannot just single out one player one record and choose to eliminate it. Honestly its not even the most important part of the game. What about the Playoffs and World Series Bonds and other steroid users helped their team to win. That is more important. This response is just stupid.

Bonds as the HR king is what baseball deserves for turning a blind eye to the steroid era. I am kind of happy that Bonds used steroids and set the records because it took such a negatively polarizing figure to get the public support behind the cause to try to get steroids out of the game.

[MadScientist]

He could just say that any home runs hit by a player during a season that he was using steroids do not count towards his career totals. That would drop Bonds below Aaron, and knock about 150 HR's off of A-Rod. I'd be ok with such a rule.

[Invader3K]

Hank Aaron is always going to be my home run king no matter what. Notice how no one even talks about Bonds anymore (except in relation to his impending trial), and Aaron seems to get more attention than ever? I think Bonds' record is completely hollow in the minds of most baseball fans. No need to "adjust" things when people already see it that way, in my opinion.

[LetsGoBrewCrew]

If Bonds' record were to be knocked down or erased, does that mean Big Mac's 70 is gone too and Roger Maris is still the single season HR king? I like that Bud is thinking about it, but until a plan is completely thought out and well defined, I hope Bud keeps *thinking* about it before something goes terribly wrong.

[Crewin06]

He could just say that any home runs hit by a player during a season that he was using steroids do not count towards his career totals. That would drop Bonds below Aaron, and knock about 150 HR's off of A-Rod. I'd be ok with such a rule.

And how do we definitively know wheter a player was using steroids during a season. Bonds has still never admited to anything. Do we even have a definitive test that says Bonds used steroids?

 

Personally I think it is rather hypocritical considering Aaron probably used greenies and there is some question to whether he also used steroids or performance enhancers towards the end of his career.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

This can't end well...

 

I'm with Invader - in my mind, Aaron is the home run king, we don't need any official thing from MLB to state so...

[DougJones43]

If MLB does this, they might as well just erase everything that's happened in baseball since the 80's. It would be the only fair way to do it, since we'll never truly know who did and who didn't use PED. You can't just pick and choose certain records and certain players.

 

Either it all goes, or it all stays. Sooner or later, people are just going to have to accept that it was part of baseball for a long time, and move on...

[Invader3K]

Personally I think it is rather hypocritical considering Aaron probably used greenies and there is some question to whether he also used steroids or performance enhancers towards the end of his career.

Based on what?

 

Aaron actually admitted using a "greenie" one time in his book, but said it was a terrible experience and he never did it after that. As far as him using steroids, I've never heard anyone give any legitimate claim to that.

[TooLiveBrew]

Either it all goes, or it all stays. Sooner or later, people are just going to have to accept that it was part of baseball for a long time, and move on...

 

Agreed, DJ -- we all cheered for them during the heyday. Why do people still talk like the pitchers facing guys like Bonds weren't PED abusers too? Canseco's estimate of 75% was of all players, not just batters.

 

Hank Aaron hit HRs off pitchers that had access to the same or similar physical training & PEDs (greenies/amphetamines), and Bonds hit them off pitchers that had access to the same or similar physical training & PEDs ('roids, HGH, etc.). Where is the difference? I don't think it can be effectively argued that a tangible one exists. The only difference imo is in fan sentiment, since there's a ridiculous amount of coverage & scrutiny of the gam now that simply didn't exist in Aaron's day.

[patrickgpe]

i think it should be left alone. Bonds will not be in the hall, history will not be kind to him, that is punishment enough. Let him have his record.

[Tbadder]

Crewin: Awesomely put.

 

Records are just that, a record of the daily, yearly, and career length achievements of every player. They are facts. "This is what happened on June 12th 1957, etc." Expunging them is ridiculous. Puttting an asterisk next to them is meaningless. It's meaningless because we are all going to die. And after we die, the genrations that follow won't care like we do. It's really a mute point. Do any of us care that the Spitball era existed? Do we care that the Deadball Era kept power numbers down? Do we care that players in the 60s were taking amphetamines? It's another chapter in the colorful history that is baseball. I say lets enjoy it. Look the drama it created. I loved Clemens and Palmiero on televsion being all self-righteous. I love Bonds going to trial. It's entertainment after all. If I want to be bored and upset I'd follow politics.

[RobertR]

If Bonds' record were to be knocked down or erased, does that mean Big Mac's 70 is gone too and Roger Maris is still the single season HR king? I like that Bud is thinking about it, but until a plan is completely thought out and well defined, I hope Bud keeps *thinking* about it before something goes terribly wrong.

No, that would mean that Sammy Sosa is the new single season HR king. I think we all have our suspicions, but there's no proof involving Sosa of anything as he was apparently uninvolved in the whole BALCO mess.

 

Bud's biggest weakness is as a public speaker and at PR. It's extremely silly to talk about messing with the record book, with is just a collection of facts. You're getting into old school Kremlin politics when you start to talk about erasing things from history.

 

Honestly, Bud's best course of action is just to acknowledge that it's very disappointing to learn these things. And that hopefully baseball has turned a corner with the new drug policy. And then just move on.

 

Robert

[topper09er]

If Bonds' record were to be knocked down or erased, does that mean Big Mac's 70 is gone too and Roger Maris is still the single season HR king? I like that Bud is thinking about it, but until a plan is completely thought out and well defined, I hope Bud keeps *thinking* about it before something goes terribly wrong.

No, that would mean that Sammy Sosa is the new single season HR king. I think we all have our suspicions, but there's no proof involving Sosa of anything as he was apparently uninvolved in the whole BALCO mess.

 

Bud's biggest weakness is as a public speaker and at PR. It's extremely silly to talk about messing with the record book, with is just a collection of facts. You're getting into old school Kremlin politics when you start to talk about erasing things from history.

 

Honestly, Bud's best course of action is just to acknowledge that it's very disappointing to learn these things. And that hopefully baseball has turned a corner with the new drug policy. And then just move on.

 

Robert

Im pretty sure everyone agrees Sosa was juicing, look at him in '98 compared to his ChiSox days, plus as soon as he was forced to stop juicing because of testing he corked his bat which he "had no idea about" because his numbers were slipping. Remember how hilarious it was when his bat cracked open and those balls flew all over the field.

 

I think Bonds taking HGH is way different from A-Roid because the HGH essentially helped Bonds stay younger longer but A-Roid was just able to lift weights more often, he still had to hit the ball.

 

The real question is what will happen to A-Roid, because he IS GOING to break Bonds HR record, he is ONLY 32 and has 553 HRs! If he hit 30 HRs/year it would only take him 7 years to pass Bonds, and that is a low estimate for his HRs/season over the next 7 years. This Bonds asterisk is only temporary, what should be done about Aaron vs. A-Roid is the real question....

 

until 2025 when Ryan Braun becomes the all-time HR king

[Crewin06]

Personally I think it is rather hypocritical considering Aaron probably used greenies and there is some question to whether he also used steroids or performance enhancers towards the end of his career.

Based on what?

 

Aaron actually admitted using a "greenie" one time in his book, but said it was a terrible experience and he never did it after that. As far as him using steroids, I've never heard anyone give any legitimate claim to that.

And Rafeal Palmero stood in front of congress waived his finger at them and vehemently said I did not do steroids. Alex Rodriguez said on a live interview that he did not use PED's. Who do we believe?

 

All I know is one of the earliest admitters to using steroids is Tom House (http://www.bigshowbasebal...08/steroids-in-1970s.html) Who was a teammate of Hank Aaron's starting in 1971. He said alot of pitchers (about 7 per staff) were using them at the time which kind of means they were pretty prevelent at least in the Atlanta Braves clubhouse. In 1971 Hank Aaron hit the most home runs of his career at age 37 in only 566 plate appearances. Not AB's but PA's. Then in 1973 at the age of 39 years old he slugged the most HR's per PA's of his career in route to hitting 40 more HR's in 460 plate appearances. What happend at the end of Hank's career that helped him become such a more proficient HR hitter than he was earlier in his career?

 

Nobody else finds it weird that Hank's best 5 yr home run hitting stretch came from ages 35-39 when he was teammates with an admited steroid user and his PA's during that stretch were decreasing?

 

I am not saying Hank Aaron definitely used steroids. However I certainly don't think it is out of the question.

[Gobias Industries]

No, that would mean that Sammy Sosa is the new single season HR king. I think we all have our suspicions, but there's no proof involving Sosa of anything as he was apparently uninvolved in the whole BALCO mess.

 

Bud's biggest weakness is as a public speaker and at PR. It's extremely silly to talk about messing with the record book, with is just a collection of facts. You're getting into old school Kremlin politics when you start to talk about erasing things from history.

 

Honestly, Bud's best course of action is just to acknowledge that it's very disappointing to learn these things. And that hopefully baseball has turned a corner with the new drug policy. And then just move on.

 

Robert

I agree 100%.

 

Did Bud and his braintrust brainstorm and pick the worst possible idea they came up with? Erase the players like Arod, Bonds, and McGwire from the record books, but keep guys like Sosa in it because they haven't been proven (yet)? Big deal, let the records stand.

[logan82]

The thing is that we don't know beyond a doubt who did or didn't use other than a few guys right now. It would be well, stupid, to make any changes to the stats without definitive proof on which players used and didn't use. As far as I know they still don't have a test in place for HGH either so there is still a good chance there are cheaters that would never be caught. If you aren't going to catch them all, I think the best thing is to just admit that steroids were used and move forward to prevent steroids and other performance enhancing drugs from being used in the future.

[whizkid]

Nobody else finds it weird that Hank's best 5 yr home run hitting stretch came from ages 35-39

 

You need to factor in that the mound was lowered 5" after the '68 season as a response to the biggest pitcher's era since the deadball era.

[3Putt]

Nobody else finds it weird that Hank's best 5 yr home run hitting stretch came from ages 35-39

 

You need to factor in that the mound was lowered 5" after the '68 season as a response to the biggest pitcher's era since the deadball era.

Plus smaller parks, a more lively ball, diluted pitching and now steroids. Real baseball fans understand that the old home run records were more meaningful. Let them stand. Put Pete Rose in the HOF while you're at it too.

[Thurston Fluff]

Considering Bonds essentially did it for the purpose of being considered the best of all time I think taking away the very thing he did it for would be an appropriate punishment. Players of that caliber don't need to do it and the only way to prevent future ones from following suit is to make sure they will not get the desired outcome. From all accounts Bonds doesn't really give a rats behind what people think of him but obviously he cared enough about his records/legacy to cheat to get them.

That said I don't see where this will end so I'm not sure it's a workable solution.

[Bikeage77]

To have an asterick is one thing, but if Selig plans to adjust accordingly, all kinds of stats would have to be tinkered with. Besides homeruns, wouldn't that affect pitchers ERA, WHIP, Etc?

 

Michael J Fox could tell you a thing or two about messing with the past, or the future for that matter. Either just put an asterick in front, or don't just leave it alone.

[Ennder]

Plus smaller parks, a more lively ball, diluted pitching and now steroids. Real baseball fans understand that the old home run records were more meaningful. Let them stand. Put Pete Rose in the HOF while you're at it too.

I'm a real baseball fan and I'm not buying this one bit. The average talent of players in baseball in those eras was nowhere near as strong as it is now.

[Invader3K]

Well, baseball players should be better today considering most of them do nothing but play baseball from the time they're about 10 up (give or take). A lot of those old timers had to work second jobs, work during the off-season, etc. Also, today's training and nutritional routines are more developed, which can make a huge difference.