Sheets watch, Part 2: Had surgery 2/10, Brewers may need to pay for it

[logan82]

Who pays if Sheets wasn't following his rehab routine or was doing something that would prolong the injury? I am not saying he was just wondering.

[owbc]

Things aren't that bad. Going into 2002, we all knew the team was going to be horrible, they were completely out of it a week into the season, it didn't get any better as the season went on, and the all star game turned out to be an embarrassment.

 

This year, we're projected to be over .500, we should be in competition for things, we have a new manager, we have a solid coaching staff, we didn't reduce our payroll at all, we didn't lose any starting position players...

 

There's been some painful losses, but did anyone really think that CC was coming back? Same with Sheets.

 

To me, Sheets' loss is especially painful since he had a great career as a Brewer but will forever be tarred by this injury and the way he left. He's going to get booed when he returns to Milwaukee--even though he signed a contract here and was a positive member of the community. That's just sad.

[Invader3K]

Yeah...the thing to remember with Sheets is he ended up being a Brewer a lot longer than most other decent players this team has had in recent memory. It's not like he left the first chance he got.

[giffted1]

To me, Sheets' loss is especially painful since he had a great career as a Brewer but will forever be tarred by this injury and the way he left. He's going to get booed when he returns to Milwaukee--even though he signed a contract here and was a positive member of the community. That's just sad.

I put Sheets in the same category as Jenkins and hope (but don't expect) that he get's a nice ovation from the crowd when he comes back as well. Both had nice careers here and both passed on opportunities to leave a pretty crappy team here. I'm sure that most people will remember the Ben Sheets that got knocked out of the Cub's game in the 3rd inning, but I try to remember his September duel with Jake Peavy.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

but I try to remember his September duel with Jake Peavy.

The fact that he lost that game pretty much sums up his time here in Milwaukee. Lots of good pitching with little run support.

 

http://milwaukee.brewers....mp;team=away&c_id=mil

[patrickgpe]

didn't see this answered yet, but does anyone know if sheets doesn't sign with someone until after the draft are we stuck with no compensation at all?

[SeriesFinale]

didn't see this answered yet, but does anyone know if sheets doesn't sign with someone until after the draft are we stuck with no compensation at all?

That is correct...Ben Sheets' legacy here will be some pretty good memories and a few bad ones

[trwi7]

The fact that he lost that game pretty much sums up his time here in Milwaukee. Lots of good pitching with little run support.

He's talking about the game in September against Peavy at Miller Park. Brewers won 1-0.

[hauser42]

One of the top Sheeter Haters on the board and I can say that Sheets has once again stolen from the Brewers. No picks as his arm has crumbled and once again a part of Ben's body has broken down. There are rumors out there that he may have done some damage in an off season work. Off season workout and Ben Sheets usually do not go together, however I could see him trying to get in shape so that he could get a big contract. Really glad that Sheets will be costing the Brewers a bunch of money this year.

 

Really sucks that Brewers have been the biggest losers this off season as CC and Sheets leave and team only gets a sandwich pick and 2nd rounder. Farm sytem will not be recharged like it should have been coming into this offseason.

[PeaveyFury]

There are rumors out there that he may have done some damage in an off season work.

 

Link?

[logan82]

When Sheets decided to have surgery after receiving no offers on the free-agent market that he deemed appropriate, the Brewers were contacted about picking up the tab. Because they had no idea whether Sheets aggravated the condition after becoming a free agent, the Brewers were not inclined to pay, resulting in discussions among the parties and MLB officials.

"It's very murky," said one baseball official familiar with the situation

Link

 

I thought that might be a possibility. Of course it is really hard to prove.

[valpocrewsader]

There are rumors out there that he may have done some damage in an off season work.

 

Link?

This ESPN.com mega-article suggests via question that the injury might be due to an off-season workout: http://sports.espn.go.com...&page=rumblings090206 ... that's a rumour. Baseless, perhaps, but where there's smoke.....

[brains and braun]

This kind of thing really suggests to me that bridges have been burned.

[SeriesFinale]

This kind of thing really suggests to me that bridges have been burned.

Yeah, they start haggling over money for surgery and it starts reeking of an unpleasant divorce.

[SeriesFinale]

Really glad that Sheets will be costing the Brewers a bunch of money this year.

"A bunch," huh? Will this >$50K or so in surgery money be the impediment to the Brew Crew adding Halladay or the like this June?

 

I mean, I know you're just looking for reasons to pile on Sheets, but really, by being injured (which I'm sure he desires deeply, this having been his primary shot at a huge payday for him and his wife and children--but oh, he just hates the Brewers and their fans so much he wanted to stick it to us!), Big Ben probably saved the team money this season by them not having to dole out bonus money for the supplemental pick for him (cold comfort obviously, but the truth, if you're gonna complain about the surgery cost), and certainly saved them money by not signing the arbitration offered him by the Brewers (no Hoffman, no Prince arby deal).

[Invader3K]

Yeah...at least the Brewers will probably save a few million this June by not having to sign those extra high draft picks like SeriesFinale alluded to.

[PeaveyFury]

Yeah...at least the Brewers will probably save a few million this June by not having to sign those extra high draft picks like SeriesFinale alluded to.

 

True, interestingly enough. You have to wonder if the Brewers/Melvin now have an extra 3 million or so to sign a pitcher with as a result.

[Point Beer Is Best]

True, interestingly enough. You have to wonder if the Brewers/Melvin now have an extra 3 million or so to sign a pitcher with as a result.

I'm hoping that's the case. Going into the offseason, they had to feel pretty good about getting two first found picks and two sandwich picks for CC and Ben, not one sandwich and a second rounder. If they budgeted accordingly, they should have some extra coin.

[JJHardy7]

I have been pretty tough on Sheets for awhile also, but I always respected that he could at times be one of the handful best pitchers in the game. I'm not saying at times he sucked, but I always thought that since he did miss time it hurt his value among other elite pitchers. As I've posted before, through some minor league contacts Sheets hasn't had a reputation as a workout warrior or anything like that...it's much of the opposite. I know it's impossible to know if his injuries were conditioning related or what, but IMO there's reason to believe it's possible a lot of these 'fluke' injuries were due to conditioning. I know ender will post stats of innings pitched and such and how Sheets isn't injury prone, which I do appreciate. The thing is I never understood how Sheets got a 'pass' on these fluke injuries. I know there is evidence to suggest he may have been abused with pitch counts and such in Milwaukee and to me those injuries due get a 'pass'.

I'm not going to post a source or anything of that nature so take this however you want, but I think part of Sheets conditioning habits are a good reason why there weren't more offers out there for him. This is not to say a team wouldn't have given him $8 million over 3 years, but Sheets and his agent wanted more than that. Sheets wanted to be paid like an ace and that's understandable. Without using a source I'll try to just paint a picture and again take it for what it's worth:

- Sheets pitched like an ace last year...there's no debate about that.
- Sheets missed the end of the season with an injury at the time that should heal with rest...in other words over time he'd be back to ace level.
- Even in this 'bad' market most of the top players got signed to about market or below market value. Some took a hit, but still had nice contracts.
- Sheets and any kind of real rumors really didn't exist. There wasn't interest in Sheets at the level he wanted to be paid (like an ace).
- The Brewers and baseball did not know Sheets needed surgery...yet there were no offers for Sheets.

I hope that paints the picture of what I'm trying to say. Sheets work ethic could be put into question. I don't know if this is fair or not because he puts up ace numbers, but apparently IMO it scared away teams from a long-term deal. I think the thing that is being missed here is that there's speculation he was already hurt and the Brewers knew that so there were no offers. I don't believe that to be 100% true in regards to his surgery. The Brewers offered arby to get the draft pick. If Sheets accepted it, great. If not, they'd get a first round pick. Sheets does have value, but I do believe his work ethic scared away teams from offering what Sheets wanted. I'm not saying no team wanted Sheets because of his work ethic, but they weren't going to offer him a deal they knew he'd laugh at.

[strawbossisevil]

You MAY be on to something JJHardy7, although I'm not so sure.

 

Trouble with that theory is no one with any inside knowledge of the club has ever said anything negative in regards to his lack of conditioning. People have been bouncing the idea around here on this site for a few years that his conditioning is bad, but if that were true, you'd think at least at some point, some insider would say something similar. I have yet to see that from anyone, which leads me to believe that it may not be the big issue some on this site want it to be.

 

I could be wrong, but if it is such a huge deal, why isn't any MLB insider talking about it?

[hauser42]

Really glad that Sheets will be costing the Brewers a bunch of money this year.

"A bunch," huh? Will this >$50K or so in surgery money be the impediment to the Brew Crew adding Halladay or the like this June?

 

I mean, I know you're just looking for reasons to pile on Sheets, but really, by being injured (which I'm sure he desires deeply, this having been his primary shot at a huge payday for him and his wife and children--but oh, he just hates the Brewers and their fans so much he wanted to stick it to us!), Big Ben probably saved the team money this season by them not having to dole out bonus money for the supplemental pick for him (cold comfort obviously, but the truth, if you're gonna complain about the surgery cost), and certainly saved them money by not signing the arbitration offered him by the Brewers (no Hoffman, no Prince arby deal).

I was really hoping that Sheets would be done and over with the Brewres, I hope they dont have to pay for the surgery in the end.

 

Have stated in the past it was time for Sheets to leave the Brewers and I also wrote that he will likely put up better numbers once out of Brew Town if he stays healthy. Sheets was jinxed in Brew Town and is entering his peak years however I dont see it happening for a couple years as he will have to recover from an injury first.

 

Intersting point that the money saved on draft picks could be used on free agency at this point. Melvin could also use that money to sign a player above slot cost come draft time.

[TheCrew07]

I have a hard time getting excited about 2 less draft picks and 3 million more to spend on an average SP. At this point, if there's not a trade, I'd rather just sit tight and see how things shake out this season. We have lots of questions that need to be answered that will help determine the direction this team should go in the future.

[SeriesFinale]

I have a hard time getting excited about 2 less draft picks and 3 million more to spend on an average SP.

I'm definitely not excited about it, and I don't think anyone here is...I just pointed it out since people are complaining that Sheets will be "costing the team money" this season with this surgery when this crummy development will actually likely save them some bones this year, for better or for worse

[logan82]

The minimal cost of signing a draft pick this year is nothing compared to the payoff of a good pick a few years from now. Unless of course you people drafting are terrible at judging talent.

[Invader3K]

Well, that's the thing too...while I'm sure the current Brewers scouting staff will be fine, we won't really know for at least a couple years if they are competent or not without Jack Z at the helm.

 

I guess, like I said before, after this offseason I'm really not going to be in the mood to hear about potential draft picks in the near future. It just seems like a pretty big gamble.