Sheets watch, Part 2: Had surgery 2/10, Brewers may need to pay for it

[JohnBriggs12]

No he couldn't. FA accepting arbitration don't get guaranteed money.

 

He would have gotten some money. It would have cost the Brewers $1-2 million (at least) on a $12M contract.

You're right FTJ, he would have been owed 30 days pay or roughly 1/6 of his total contract so in your example, $2 million. Nevertheless, that wasn't bad gamble by the Brewers for offering it, because if he wasn't healthy they weren't on the hook for all that much. Sheets figured, even hurt, somebody would give him more than $2 million even if it was questionable how much he could pitch in 2009.

[SeriesFinale]

Sad, even. This is Ben's prime.

 

Nope - this was supposed to be Ben's prime. Ben's actual prime was 2003-2005.

Well, yeah: that's why I said it was sad.

[Fatter than Joey]

Nevertheless, that wasn't bad gamble by the Brewers for offering it, because if he wasn't healthy they weren't on the hook for all that much.

 

I don't think DM rolls the dice like that -- I am pretty convinced DM thought Sheets was good to go.

[kramnoj]

I'm not sure your scenario holds, JB. If Sheets was actually injured, and it was shown that it occurred while pitching for the Brewers, I doubt that the Brewers could have cut him and not paid him. Can you find any other scenario where this holds true?

 

The one that sticks out it my mind is when Ron Gant got hurt while on a motorcycle. The Braves cut him, but they weren't on the hook except for the 30 days because he wasn't injured while performing for the Braves. Of course, this was like a decade ago, so who knows how many details I got wrong.

[JohnBriggs12]

if he does need surgery in order to continue pitching, he could be 5 months into his recovery by now.

 

Yes -- and teams would feel more comfortable where things are at with Sheets.

 

Players are all reluctant to go under the knife. Sheets is a power pitcher, with a power fastball and a power curve. He's never had to really learn to "pitch". Who knows what he'll be like after surgery. If he loses just 2-3 mph off his fastball and isn't able to snap off that big curveball, he could be very ordinary.

[Tbadder]

I think the Brewers only recourse is to sign Benny now. Without draft pick compensation we have to regain value. Now, the history of the illness might preclude any kind of signing, but if the prognosis is generally good I'd suggest a two year contract--5 million guaranteed over the two years, and 7 million in incentives in the 2nd year.

[Fatter than Joey]

I'm not sure your scenario holds, JB. If Sheets was actually injured, and it was shown that it occurred while pitching for the Brewers, I doubt that the Brewers could have cut him and not paid him.

 

That's an interesting point I don't think you could cut him, if it was injury related. -- The other thing, would be once Sheets threw one pitch, you couldn't prove when the injury occurred easily. Also, I don't know if teams require physicals before an arby contract.

 

I don't think DM gambles with $2M either -- in either case...

 

Bottom line, I think DM dodged a bullet here. I think he thought Sheets would be ready to go (maybe with some rehab time)...

[JohnBriggs12]

kramnoj,

 

Sheets was hurt under his prior contract which had expired. This would be a new contract that went into effect after the injury causing him to be unable to pitch competitively. Here's the rule for FA who accept arby (and subsequently released):

 

A Player whose Contract is terminated by a Club....for failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability shall be entitled to termination pay in an amount equal to thirty days payment....if the termination occurs during spring training but on or before the 16th day prior to the start of the competitive season...."

 

Unless Sheets proved he got hurt after signing the new contract (which would be tough to do), I don't see how the Brewers would have to pay him anything but the 30 days.

[logan82]

From the original linked article

At the time, according to Ash, the medical prognosis was that, "with rest and exercise and rehab, he should be fine."

Asked if there was any talk of surgery at that time, Ash replied simply, "None."

The team was so comfortable with that diagnosis that it extended a Dec. 2 offer of arbitration to Sheets, who is a free agent for the first time in his career.

 

The Brewers had dispatched assistant athletic trainer Dan Wright to Louisiana to examine Sheets and that visit did not reveal any red flags. That visit occurred before Dec. 8, when Sheets formally declined the team's arbitration offer.

I think this points to some incompetence on the part of our doctors and trainers. My guess is that they thought they knew what was wrong and failed to look deeper.

[fondybrewfan]

It seems to me that this is a case of both Ben and the Brewers believing that time would heal this injury. Thats what the Brewers thought when they offered arbitration and that is what Ben thought when he declined. This isn't a new injury, it just failed to heal as the doctors had predicted.

 

The Rangers doctors didn't find anything new, the same injury from August just failed to heal like I everyone assumed it would. I would highly suspect that Sheets has had other "Non Brewer" doctors look at it as well and they probably told him the same thing, thus he hasn't elected to have surgery yet. I suppose it is also possible that Sheets perhaps pushed to hard and too early in the offseason resulting in a re-aggravation.

 

I could care less if the Crew has to pay for the surgery, when a payroll is $90 million I don't think a $10,000 surgery really matters a whole lot.

[kramnoj]

At this point, we actually don't know what the current status is of Sheets arm. The whole "might" word doesn't really tell us anything.

[naivin]

I think the Brewers only recourse is to sign Benny now. Without draft pick compensation we have to regain value. Now, the history of the illness might preclude any kind of signing, but if the prognosis is generally good I'd suggest a two year contract--5 million guaranteed over the two years, and 7 million in incentives in the 2nd year.

Regain value? How is that regaining value? That would be throwing good money after bad. If he requires elbow surgery, certainly he will not likely pitch at all this year, and you have no idea what you are gonna get after that. He has had the double whammy of shoulder and elbow. If he wants to sign a deal like Kerry Wood or Mark Prior did after surgery...something in the area of $1 millon per year (would obviously need to be a 2-year deal), that's fine. Anything more than that guaranteed would be insanity.

[naivin]

would a 2 yr/$15M deal be absolutely insane? Am I losing it?

2yr/$15M...I would say you've already lost it. You really wanna pay $15 million dollars for 1 season of pitching from a guy who has had both shoulder and elbow injuries, fresh off elbow surgery?

 

I think people need to forget about the uniform this guy used to wear, or the team that drafted him. If this was anybody else, and the circumstances were identical would you even consider for 1 second offering him 2yrs/$15M?

[Bring Back the Stein]

I have a feeling that Ben Sheets is going to torment me from beyond the grave.

[RyDogg66]

Lets see how Jason Jennings pitches this year. He is coming off the same surgery, and while he wasnt near the talent Sheets is, he had a good year in 2006 with Colorado before being traded.

[BREWCREW5]

Who really cares if the brewers have to pay for the surgery. What will it cost? Probably somewhere between $5K to $100K. That is chump change to any major league team. Im sure there is some sort of insurance as well. Its hard to believe it would be coming straight from Mark A's wallet.

[Ennder]

http://www.fannation.com/...ogs/hot_stove/posts/47664

 

 

Looks like he is having it. This really screws the Brewers over. First a very crappy top pick for Sabathia and now no pick for Sheets.

[Fatter than Joey]

Worst. Offseason. Ever.

[UeckerAddict]

Well, it's basically the same team we had last year before CC, but we are swapping Sheets for Gallardo and Gagne for Hoffman. Yes, there are a few other differences with the bullpen and our reserve position players, but I was optimistic last year, so I'll be optimistic this year. I wish Benny the best.

[BREWCREW5]

Worst. Offseason. Ever.

 

Its by far not the worst offseason ever. This one is crappy but there has been many many worse, especially for Brewer fans.

[Ennder]

On paper I personally think every single team in the NL Central got worse this year than they were going into last year. The Reds and Brewers are the teams that stands out as having a lot of young talent that could take them a step forward in a hurry though in our case a step forward probably will lead to a repeat of last year since we lost talent in the offseason. The Astros are an old team with no pitching, the Cubs got older, lost depth and got riskier. The Cardinals are about the same as last year. The Pirates are still a number of years away from competing.

[SeriesFinale]

would a 2 yr/$15M deal be absolutely insane? Am I losing it?

2yr/$15M...I would say you've already lost it....

2/15 was way high, yes, and yeah, it was most likely informed by the strong service that Big Ben often gave the Brewers (imagine).

 

That said, I don't think it would be the worst idea in the world to try and lock him up now for 2-3 years (i.e., one or two seasons of actual pitching) at a low-priced, high-incentive contract. Unfortunately, the Brewers don't have the money to try and take those risks.

[RyDogg66]

Unfortunately, with news of this surgery and the rehab time involved, even I cant agree with giving him a 2 or 3 year deal, and I have been pushing for such a deal for a long time, since before the end of the season even. He's done in Milwaukee, and maybe done all together.

[1992casey]

I don't think they could keep Sheets in the dark about the extent of the injury and if he knew it was worse than they let on he would have accepted arby.

 

There's no way that the Brewers could conceal the extent of the injury from Ben.

 

 

You're right FTJ, he would have been owed 30 days pay or roughly 1/6 of his total contract...

 

Players with non-guaranteed contracts are paid 1/6 of their salary if they're released in the first half of Spring Training and 1/4 if they're released in the second half of Spring Training. They're paid their full salary if released on or after Opening Day.

 

Note that if a player accepts arby and the two sides settle, the rules don't preclude a guaranteed or multi-year contract. However, if the contract is decided by an arbitration panel, it's a non-guaranteed one-year deal.

[SeriesFinale]

A lot of the NSBB guys are interested in him as a reclamation a la Dempster, although some are wary of the results of the surgery (and potential others), some are wary of giving up the draft pick:

 

http://www.northsidebaseb...viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52909

 

I can imagine that a few clubs with money would be considering the same--or at least their fans!