TGJ - out of options?

[Patrick425]

I'm sorry if this has already been discussed. Feel free to lock up and redirect if that's that case.

 

On mlbtraderumors.com it lists players that are out of options for 2009. Tony Gwynn Jr. is on that list. Does this mean that if he does not make the 25 man roster out of ST, another team could possibly snatch him up?

[And That]

Yes, when you're out of options and taken off the major league roster, you are placed on waivers and designated for assignment.

 

Here's Brewerfan's 40 man roster page, with option data. Anyone with a "0" under the option column would have to pass through waivers. There are some nuances to the rules... veterans with so much (I forget how much) major league service time also would have to pass through waivers even though they have options left.

[CheezWizHed]

That list can't be completely accurate can it? How does Bill Hall have an option left while TGJ has none?

[Patrick425]

My initial post was not worded very well. Maybe I should have added an exclamation point. For the most part I understand the ramifications of being out of options. I guess I'm just surprised that TGJ is out of options and that there has not been more discussion about this. Not that he's a major prospect any more (or ever has been), but I think he's a very serviceable 4th outfielder. I have a hard time believing that the Brewers would just let him go.

Is there any thought that this increases his chances of making the 25 man roster this year? Or, is there even possibly an assumption that he will make the roster?

[And That]

That list can't be completely accurate can it? How does Bill Hall have an option left while TGJ has none?

It might not be completely accurate, but I don't understand the question about Hall and Gwynn. Hall has been sent down to the minors in two different years and Gwynn has been sent down in three different years.

[Never Outhustled]

He can't hit, and its becoming clear he never will. Bad draft pick, I really hope the team moves on, but I don't think they will. I think the organization views him as a babysitter for Fielder. Thtas a worthwhile idea, but I don't think its had the desired impact.

[And That]

I doubt Gwynn's option status has any great bearing on whether or not he makes the club out of spring training. Losing Gwynn on waivers is probably far down the list of things the Brewers wish will never happen. As X said, he just can't hit, plus his defense is just pretty good and he's not as fast as many people seem to think that he is.

[Patrick425]

Yeah, as I take a closer look at his stats, I realize his offense is not a good as I thought it was.

[Tbadder]

I think the sooner he's out of the organization the better for everyone here. Then we don't have to talk about how inadequate he is all the time. TGJ is a great example of an organizational whipping boy--at least on fan forums. The question is who do replace his sorry butt with? Ya gotta have someone to beat up on.

[JohnBriggs12]

Look, Gwynn's not the worst 2nd round pick. A lot of 2nd round picks don't pan out. Gwynn lost out on a big opportunity last April. I think it affected him all year. At best now he's a 5th OF. More likely is he'll hang around AAA a few more years where he'll need to open eyes by hitting in the .320 to .330 range, not the .275-.300 he's stuck in the last couple.

 

At 26, you quickly go from prospect to journeyman minor leaguer. Unless he does something this year, he probably never will.

[endaround]

No he gets beat up because he's constantly brought up in the media as the future in CF despite showing no reason to have ever been promoted above AA. He's assumed to have skills he doesn't because of who his father is and because of his body type.

 

Assuming the Brewers end up with 12 pitchers you have 5 bench spots. Three are already set with Hall, Counsell, and Rivera. That leaves competition for the final two, one between Nixon/Nelson with Nelson out of options and who was already removed from the 40 man once and one between Irribarren/Gwynn both out of options.

[JohnBriggs12]

No he gets beat up because he's constantly brought up in the media as the future in CF despite showing no reason to have ever been promoted above AA. He's assumed to have skills he doesn't because of who his father is and because of his body type.

 

Assuming the Brewers end up with 12 pitchers you have 5 bench spots. Three are already set with Hall, Counsell, and Rivera. That leaves competition for the final two, one between Nixon/Nelson with Nelson out of options and who was already removed from the 40 man once and one between Irribarren/Gwynn both out of options.

Who in the media keeps bringing him up? He's mentioned sure, but I don't recall him rising into the top 5 on anyone's Brewer prospect list and nobody's talking about him now.

 

As for his not "earning" a promotion above AA, that happens all the time for higher round picks whether they're named Gwynn or Smith. They don't have to earn promotions. High picks are high picks because they project as major leaguers. Gwynn proved he belonged in AAA with a solid year in 2006. Or don't you consider .300/.360/.396 with 30 steals solid? His problem is he hasn't progressed since. His major league numbers are irrelevant because the sample size is small and he never played regularly.

[trwi7]

Who in the media keeps bringing him up? He's mentioned sure, but I don't recall him rising into the top 5 on anyone's Brewer prospect list and nobody's talking about him now.

Jeff Falconio, Dan O'Donnell, Steve "Sparky" Fifer are the three that jump out to me. I don't recall, but Greg Matzek might two and a bunch of callers always bring him up.

[CheezWizHed]

It might not be completely accurate, but I don't understand the question about Hall and Gwynn. Hall has been sent down to the minors in two different years and Gwynn has been sent down in three different years.

I must not understand the "option" thing totally. I thought they had three years to option a player to the minors whether they were sent or not. Don't options expire at some point?

[1992casey]

An option is only used if a 40-man roster player is sent to the minors and spends at least 20 (or 21) days there during the season. This has happened with Gwynn in three seasons; in Hall's case, it's only happened twice.

 

If a player is sent to the minors and spends less than 20 (or 21) days there over the course of the season, an option isn't used. He accumulates Major League service time instead. As an example, Dave Bush was sent down last year, but didn't stay. An option wasn't used.

 

Note: The 20 (21) stuff is because I don't know exactly how the contract is worded. It uses the number 20, but it might say something like "more than 20."

[And That]

No, options never expire. Players are optioned when they are sent from the major league roster to a minor league roster. Every player gets (at least) 3 option years - during these years, they may be optioned up and down an unlimited number of times. If a player is not optioned to the minor leagues from the major leagues, a player's option is not used. Ryan Braun has never been optioned, so he still has all three of his option years, even though it's highly unlikely he'll ever be optioned.

[1992casey]

There are a couple of other twists that we don't see often.

 

After a certain amount of Major League service, a player will have to clear waivers to be able to be optioned. I think that's three years from his first major league appearance.

 

After a longer period (five years maybe?), a player has to agree to be optioned.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

It's only a matter of time before TGJ ends up in San Diego. They're gonna have to sell tickets somehow down there.

[kramnoj]

Per Cots: "Additionally, a player with 5 years of Major League service may not be sent to the minor leagues on an optional assignment without his consent."

[RobertR]

Except for possibly San Diego purely as a circus act, I think if Gwynn can't beat out Iribarren/Duffy, he'll sail through waivers. Every organization has stats people. Every single stats person is going to say Pass. There's no shortage of 5th outfielders that can't hit.

 

Robert

[StearnsFTW]

This may not be the right thread for this, but how he was kept over Luis Pena is mind-boggling.

[JohnBriggs12]

This may not be the right thread for this, but how he was kept over Luis Pena is mind-boggling.

 

No it's not. It's a numbers thing, Right now there are 4 OF on the 40 man roster. Even if you include non-roster guys Nixon and Duffy, that's only 6. That's not to say Gwynn will make the opening day roster but he's got a lot fewer guys to contend with than Pena. Pena had zero chance of making the Brewers opening day roster. Even the likely AAA bullpen guys (Dillard, Aguilar, and Bateman) were ahead of Pena.

[TheCrew07]

It may be a numbers thing, but for many of us it's an upside thing. TGJ doesn't have any upside and Pena does.

 

On the minor league side it's about development, not who's going to make the MLB roster. If Pena would break out it's certainly possible that he'd find himself in a MLB bullpen this year, maybe not the Brewer's pen, but someone's. TGJ is out of options as well, it's not like he has a future in Milwaukee either.

 

I'd rather see Nelson, Gillespie, or Cain before TGJ, especially if he's playing in a corner spot. If he's playing CF that's one thing but that's a pretty narrow window of opportunity, I'd rather not have 1 dimensional bench players, it's a waste of a roster spot.

[vannzee]

I think we would see Rogers, or Nelson DFA'd before Gwynn Jr.

[LouisEly]

Say what you want about his bat, but TGJ is the second best defensive OF they have behind Cameron, and he's not much behind Cameron. His ceiling may only be a 4th/5th OF/PR, but he is the ideal 4th/5th OF/PR. Every team needs role players, and if that is his role than so be it. As far as Nixon goes, at his age it won't take much for him to land on the DL, and Duffy's no superstar either, and wha-la, TGJ is the only OF left by default. I don't know if Duffy can play CF but Nixon certainly can't so TGJ is their backup CF. Cain isn't ready to make the jump, Nelson, Gillespie and Katin are the most ready of their OFs but none of them can play CF.

 

No one is saying TGJ is a superstar. But if Cameron gets hurt who is going to play CF? If Hart moves to CF, then who is going to play RF?