I'm struggling with Cameron in CF

[Ennder]

But will he be able to go 200+ IP is the real question or will he hit a wall at say 150 because of the missed year. We already have duratility concerns with 3 of the other 4 members of the rotation, adding Gallardo we have 4 of 5 pitchers who can't be 'counted' on going 200 IP. That really means we need a real #6 SP most likely.

[rluzinski]

Rluz, do you have the statistics on how much a good CF can lower the team ERA with his defense. If people saw that stat, they might appreciate Cameron more.

 

It's usually presented as plays saved or runs saved over an average defender per so many starts. UZR had Cam at 13.3 runs saved/150 starts last year:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/...playerid=1070&position=OF

 

I don't think he projects to do as well this year defensively or offensively as last year, but he still projects to be roughly worth his salary. I don't understand why some are acting like CF is a prime position for the Brewers to save some money. Cam no longer has gold glove defense but he's worlds better than any other alternative right now.

[rluzinski]

Rluz, do you have the statistics on how much a good CF can lower the team ERA with his defense. If people saw that stat, they might appreciate Cameron more.

 

It's usually presented as plays saved or runs saved over an average defender per so many starts. UZR had Cam at 13.3 runs saved/150 starts last year:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/...playerid=1070&position=OF

 

I don't think he projects to do as well this year defensively or offensively as last year, but he still projects to be roughly worth his salary. I don't understand why some are acting like CF is a prime position for the Brewers to save some money. Cam no longer has gold glove defense but he's worlds better than any other alternative right now.

[JohnBriggs12]

I just heard Jon Heyman on the Score this morning downplaying Abreu's supposed defensive deficiencies. His point was that Abreu fears the wall. Other than that he's a good outfielder and that because he played for the Yankees, this deificiency was blown way out of proportion. He figures over the course of a season, maybe 5 or 6 would be outs end up being doubles. He also notes that "fear of the wall" has helped Abreu stay on the field. There aren't too many guys out there who've played 150 or more games for 11 straight seasons.

 

Also worth pointing out is Abreu has had 7 seasons with double digit outfield assists. Corey Hart on the other hand reached 8 playing every day last year.

 

The names I've thrown out there are examples. My point has more to do with the flexibility they gave up by paying Cameron than specific names. We can argue all day about the relative worth of Cameron, but the fact remains that this team did not solve the 2 biggest issues it had this offseason and now with bargains galore out there, they have no financial room to do it. Now they are left hoping that 5 starters can stay healthy all year and that 2 of them who've never pitched close to 200 innings are not only going to do that but are going to put up numbers worthy of number 1 and number 2 starters. They can also hope that a journeyman like Mike Lamb can produce enough from the left side to offset what is still an overly free swinging, low OBP, right handed lineup. I guess "hope springs eternal" because at this point, that's all they have.

[JohnBriggs12]

I just heard Jon Heyman on the Score this morning downplaying Abreu's supposed defensive deficiencies. His point was that Abreu fears the wall. Other than that he's a good outfielder and that because he played for the Yankees, this deificiency was blown way out of proportion. He figures over the course of a season, maybe 5 or 6 would be outs end up being doubles. He also notes that "fear of the wall" has helped Abreu stay on the field. There aren't too many guys out there who've played 150 or more games for 11 straight seasons.

 

Also worth pointing out is Abreu has had 7 seasons with double digit outfield assists. Corey Hart on the other hand reached 8 playing every day last year.

 

The names I've thrown out there are examples. My point has more to do with the flexibility they gave up by paying Cameron than specific names. We can argue all day about the relative worth of Cameron, but the fact remains that this team did not solve the 2 biggest issues it had this offseason and now with bargains galore out there, they have no financial room to do it. Now they are left hoping that 5 starters can stay healthy all year and that 2 of them who've never pitched close to 200 innings are not only going to do that but are going to put up numbers worthy of number 1 and number 2 starters. They can also hope that a journeyman like Mike Lamb can produce enough from the left side to offset what is still an overly free swinging, low OBP, right handed lineup. I guess "hope springs eternal" because at this point, that's all they have.

[clancyphile]

All of the options presented above would yield less wins in 2009 for the Brewers than if Mike Cameron was in CF. You get what you pay for.

Cameron's no longer playing half his games at Petco. With the combination of his power and defense, he's the best option for 2009.

 

In 2010, the CF could be Cain, it could be Hart (with Gillespie in left and Braun in right), it could be Irribarren, it could even be TGJ.

[clancyphile]

All of the options presented above would yield less wins in 2009 for the Brewers than if Mike Cameron was in CF. You get what you pay for.

Cameron's no longer playing half his games at Petco. With the combination of his power and defense, he's the best option for 2009.

 

In 2010, the CF could be Cain, it could be Hart (with Gillespie in left and Braun in right), it could be Irribarren, it could even be TGJ.

[JohnBriggs12]

All of the options presented above would yield less wins in 2009 for the Brewers than if Mike Cameron was in CF. You get what you pay for.

So you're saying if the Brewers had $10 million to spend in the open market and no Mike Cameron on their roster, your first choice would be to use all $10 million to sign Cameron over all the available talent on the market including some proven starting pitchers and left handed bats?

[JohnBriggs12]

All of the options presented above would yield less wins in 2009 for the Brewers than if Mike Cameron was in CF. You get what you pay for.

So you're saying if the Brewers had $10 million to spend in the open market and no Mike Cameron on their roster, your first choice would be to use all $10 million to sign Cameron over all the available talent on the market including some proven starting pitchers and left handed bats?

[Crewin06]

Honestly I think our 2010 outfield is Braun in right, Cain in Center and Gamel in Left. That is a pretty solid outfield. I don't think Gamel will be able to stick at 3B and because of that Hart will become expendable next offseason for pitching. I think Cameron will have a monster season and become a free agent next year. With Cain in the fold, as sad as it is to say Cameron becomes expendable. If Cameron does leave maybe the Brewers get some draft picks for him though.

[Crewin06]

Honestly I think our 2010 outfield is Braun in right, Cain in Center and Gamel in Left. That is a pretty solid outfield. I don't think Gamel will be able to stick at 3B and because of that Hart will become expendable next offseason for pitching. I think Cameron will have a monster season and become a free agent next year. With Cain in the fold, as sad as it is to say Cameron becomes expendable. If Cameron does leave maybe the Brewers get some draft picks for him though.

[rluzinski]

Signing a 4.4 ERA pitcher to a 1 year/$10 mil deal is roughly comparable, I would think. I assume Melvin yould have signed them to a multiyear deal, though, so it's not really the same thing.

 

Where most of the disagreement seems to stem from on this topic is in measuring the value of Cam's offensive. Despite his relatively low BA and high strikeout numbers, he's still a decent hitter.

[rluzinski]

Signing a 4.4 ERA pitcher to a 1 year/$10 mil deal is roughly comparable, I would think. I assume Melvin yould have signed them to a multiyear deal, though, so it's not really the same thing.

 

Where most of the disagreement seems to stem from on this topic is in measuring the value of Cam's offensive. Despite his relatively low BA and high strikeout numbers, he's still a decent hitter.

[logan82]

Our CF for next year could be Cameron. I highly doubt it though.

[logan82]

Our CF for next year could be Cameron. I highly doubt it though.

[strawbossisevil]

If he likes it in Milwaukee, and will come back at a fair price, I guess I wouldn't be opposed assuming Cameron's production doesn't drop off of the table this year. I want Cain to be ready to step in the starting lineup and succeed before we bring him up.

[strawbossisevil]

If he likes it in Milwaukee, and will come back at a fair price, I guess I wouldn't be opposed assuming Cameron's production doesn't drop off of the table this year. I want Cain to be ready to step in the starting lineup and succeed before we bring him up.