Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy

[RyDogg66]

Why will it be worse than '06? We are heading into 2009 with just about the same team we went into 2008 with, minus Ben Sheets. Hopefully improvement and consistency from Parra and Bush and a full season from Gallardo more than makes up for it though.

[chansen]

My point is that Salome is not going to be in a Brewer uniform...period. We have Rivera (who unfortunately may be out soon), Lucroy, and Lawrie. Salome, although more experienced in the Minors, is last on the list.

[JohnBriggs12]

Why will it be worse than '06? We are heading into 2009 with just about the same team we went into 2008 with, minus Ben Sheets. Hopefully improvement and consistency from Parra and Bush and a full season from Gallardo more than makes up for it though.

I don't think they'll be as close to a playoff spot as they were in 06 when they were on the fringe of the WC even into August. To assume they will be contending you have to assume a big year from Parra, plus a great deal of luck as far as pitching heath goes. I further see decline in both Cameron and Kendall who I think essentially are done and I suspect Hart's late season woes will continue. I hope I'm wrong, but in predicting you have to figure the odds of something happening and I think the odds favor a mediocre team.

 

Where it will be better than 06, is that they won't end the season with retreads with no future like David Bell, Graffanino, et all playing every day like they did in September 06. Instead, they will have young players up for good looks.

[yoshii8]

I'd so give up Salome for Kennedy. For god's sake, Angel (pun intended though cheesy at best) has no position. On top of that he's a virtual midget. Angel for Ian, they'd laugh us out of town. Start naming all the great, short DHs in MLB history. No, I agree that the Yankees can afford to stand pat. They are now in the enviable position of having starting pitching depth, which will get them out of a tought spot or two during the season.

Have you seen Angel play catcher, from what I've heard in scouting reports he has a very good chance to be able to make it as a catcher? I'm pretty sure the Yankees would take Salome for Kennedy, I know one thing, the Yankees would not laugh at getting a 22 year old catcher who just had a .974 OPS in AA.

 

Also, since DH's just hit, there have been plenty of short guys that could hit in MLB history; Kirby Puckett, Ivan Rodriguez, Joe Morgan, Tim Raines, Brian Giles to name a few.

 

chansen, do you really think that Mike Rivera is considered to be more important than Salome? They would get rid of Rivera in a second if it meant choosing between him and Salome.

[strawbossisevil]

Salome has already been in a Brewer uniform....period. Rivera is not a long term answer, Lucroy likely won´t be ready until 2011, and Lowry is even further back. With Kendell being gone after this season, that leaves us with Rivera as our only catcher on our MLB roster. It seems pretty likely, unless he absolutely flops in AAA, that we will be seeing Angel Salome by next season, if not sooner (in the case of an injury and as a September call up).

[nate82]

My point is that Salome is not going to be in a Brewer uniform...period. We have Rivera (who unfortunately may be out soon), Lucroy, and Lawrie. Salome, although more experienced in the Minors, is last on the list.

You couldn't be farther from the truth. Salome is the penciled in 2010 starting catcher for the Brewers at worst he will platoon with Rivera in 2010. Lucroy will be in the majors the earliest in 2011. Lawrie may or may not be a catcher some scouts have him as a 2B. I believe Lawrie would be better at 3B/2B than catcher. Waiting for Lawrie's defense at catcher would be something I wouldn't want to wait for especially when the window of having Braun, Gallardo, Parra, and others is shrinking every year. Lawrie could be up as early as 2011 at 2B or 3B. 3B would be mostly dependent on if Green or Gamel will be adequate at 3B if not Lawrie could be playing at 3B.

 

The Brewers have yet to say if Lawrie will be playing at catcher or at another position. I believe Lawrie is more valuable at another position because his bat is probably the most advanced out of all of the prospects in the minors. I still believe Lawrie was one of the better talents in the draft and I was suprised to see him drop to the Brewers.

 

Salome is definately worth more than Kennedy on his own. In the market catching prospects are worth more than gold. If the Brewers were to trade Salome to a team they could expect a decent #1 or #2 type pitching prospect in return plus a couple of other fringe prospects in return. The value of catching prospects is definately over valued but when you have something of a premium it will cost more. The demand for catching prospects is high and the supply of them is rather low. When demand is high and supply is low what do you think the price is going to be for that particular item?

 

There is just no way you could justify trading Salome for Kennedy. I could see Salome for Hughes but not Salome for Kennedy. I'm not saying I don't want Kennedy but giving up Salome is to much for Kennedy especially when the market for catchers is higher than that of the supply of catchers.

 

I would really like Kennedy in the Brewers rotation I think he would fit nicely in the Brewers rotation especially in the NL where he could thrive a little bit better. I do like endaround's idea of Cameron for Swisher and Kennedy. Know that I think about the salary concerns it does make sense to take on Swisher's contract for the Brewers. The only thing I don't like about that is that the defense is downgraded a lot if you are placing Hart or Swisher in CF. I'm not sure that would be a good idea for the Brewers especially with the pitching staff that we have where defense is going to be key next year.

[brewerguy71]

I dont know where some of these "scouting reports" have come from that people have referenced here that say Salome is being pencilled in or improving as a catcher.

 

The truth of the matter is that IF he can improve defensively he will be a starting catcher in the major leagues, but if he does not, he will be a man without a place to play. His defensive ability has a long way to go before he is anywhere near being mlb ready. And at best, even for the start of 2010, he is a DH/Pinch hitter type of player for the Brewers. The shame of the issue is that if he were 6 inches taller he could be a Thirdbaseman or a leftfielder. But he is slow, is weak defensively and has an average arm at best behind the plate, and is short, he would have to have Albert Pujols' bat to get him in the lineup with those vitals. Salome was a freak/experiment when the Brewers got him and they only have about one year left to see if that experiment will work out to their benefit.

 

So is he worth one for one for Kennedy? I am not high on either player so it is probably a wash. Lucroy has a better chance of being the opening day catcher for the Brewers in 10 than Salome does. The Brewers have more use for Kennedy right now that Salome, so I too would give him up for Kennedy. He has potential DH written all over him. Deal him before its too late.

[jjfanec]

nate82 wrote:

Salome is definately worth more than Kennedy on his own. In the market catching prospects are worth more than gold. If the Brewers were to trade Salome to a team they could expect a decent #1 or #2 type pitching prospect in return plus a couple of other fringe prospects in return. The value of catching prospects is definately over valued but when you have something of a premium it will cost more. The demand for catching prospects is high and the supply of them is rather low. When demand is high and supply is low what do you think the price is going to be for that particular item?

I really doubt that Salome could get a number 1 type starter let alone more prospects. There are serious questions about his ability as a catcher defensively. There is no doubt he can hit but would you trade Salome where is now for Yo a couple years ago. No way. Salome is rated behind Jeffress in the Brewers own system, so maybe best case scenario is he nets someone like Jeffress who has great upside but also some question marks. I do not see how we could get anymore in return. That being said I am biased and like Lucroy as our future catcher more because his defense is more polished.

[nate82]

I really doubt that Salome could get a number 1 type starter let alone more prospects. There are serious questions about his ability as a catcher defensively. There is no doubt he can hit but would you trade Salome where is now for Yo a couple years ago. No way. Salome is rated behind Jeffress in the Brewers own system, so maybe best case scenario is he nets someone like Jeffress who has great upside but also some question marks. I do not see how we could get anymore in return. That being said I am biased and like Lucroy as our future catcher more because his defense is more polished.

I'm not saying I would do a trade like that it is just what the market is for catchers. The value of catchers right now in the league is over blown and that is the reason why Salome could fetch a #1 or #2 type pitching prospect. I'm not saying he will but the value of catching prospects is so high that a player like Salome can fetch something that is worth more than his value in a trade. Will teams do this? Yes and no it depends on the GM and the team. The Yankees for instance can have Salome be a DH or a catcher and not lose any value at all with him even with trading Hughes or another player in their minor league system.

 

All I am pointing out is that Salome is worth more than Kennedy even with his defensive deficiencies. You can only get what the market demands and currently the market for young catchers is rather high while supply for the catchers is rather low. This is the main reason why Salome is so valuable. In a perfect market where catchers are not at a premium Salome would be equal to Kennedy in a trade but not in the current market.

[TheCrew07]

The truth of the matter is that IF he can improve defensively he will be a starting catcher in the major leagues, but if he does not, he will be a man without a place to play. His defensive ability has a long way to go before he is anywhere near being mlb ready. And at best, even for the start of 2010, he is a DH/Pinch hitter type of player for the Brewers. The shame of the issue is that if he were 6 inches taller he could be a Thirdbaseman or a leftfielder. But he is slow, is weak defensively and has an average arm at best behind the plate, and is short, he would have to have Albert Pujols' bat to get him in the lineup with those vitals. Salome was a freak/experiment when the Brewers got him and they only have about one year left to see if that experiment will work out to their benefit.

I would hope that you would research your opinions a little bit better in the future. Salome has an absolute cannon for an arm and while we've seen some poor reports on his speed after his ankle injury, he ran a sub 7.0 60 time prior to the draft per coach32sm, his high school coach. Angel's upside is beyond that of Lucroy's, I've always been on Angel's bandwagon, I only feel better about Lucroy (who by the way played poor defense at the time he was drafted) because he's becoming the total package. Angel has risk associated with him, but it's minimal as long as he's in the minors, the upside is worth being excited about.

 

As far as freak/experiment comment, that's so wrong I'm not even sure how to adequately address it. He was drafted because his raw tools are fantastic..

 

When trading prospects I haven't seen many deals that weren't upside orientated, meaning that the teams are giving up equal upside.. Garza for Young, Hamilton for Volquez... Kennedy doesn't have similar upside to Salome and while the Brewers may deal Salome for a pitcher if they are desperate, that's a way better deal for the Yankees because even if Angel doesn't make it as a C they can still get his bat in the lineup as a DH. Yes there aren't many short players that have had great careers... so what?

 

Assuming Lucroy owns up AA as he should, he could be catching in the majors in 2010. Lawrie (not Lawry) isn't sure to be catching prospect and would likely get to the majors quicker playing a different position. We have 2 very nice catching prospects, but I'm not willing to unload them today for the sake of sacrificing some depth, just because there's a deal, doesn't mean it's a good deal. The Brewers need more pitching no doubt, but let's do deals that make sense for the team longterm. If the team determines that Lucroy is the better option and trades Salome that's fine, I just hope the return is more than Kennedy. If we burn through all our depth for temporary solutions and bottom of the rotation starters, what's left to acquire any meaningful talent?

 

STL won a world series by shortening their rotation, who do the Brewers shorten their rotation to this year? I love Yo and Parra, always have, but I'm not sure that either one will be healthy and effective come playoff time. Are guys like Bush, Kennedy, Suppan, Looper, etc going to carry us through the playoffs? Who are we going to shorten our rotation to? As a site there isn't much patience around here, we want everything now. This team will be competitve but to what end I don't think any of us really know for sure, many of us might be chasing goals that aren't in the cards for this team.

[ILuvDaBush]

I know of another player who was "too short", had an "unorthodox approach", and was shrouded in doubt because of this, even though he had yet to fail, much like our future backstop. That gent won his first of many Cy's this year.

[Ennder]

It baffles me that people think that this team will be worse than the 06 team assuming no major injuries. This team is better at almost every single position than the 06 one and the pitching is probably better too.

 

Gallardo should be able to match what Sheets did in 06 at the very least, I'll take Parra over Capuano, Bush is probably about the same as that year. Suppan and Davis match up pretty well since Davis put up a 4.91 ERA that year and McCLung isn't likely worse than Ohka, Jackson, Villaneuva, Eveland from that year.

 

Outside of Cordero in the 2nd half that was a pretty darn medicre bullpen as well.

[phxMILWfan]

I'm curious why Salome's height is such a big deal. If he were 2 or 3 inches taller then there would be less concerns about his future as a major leaguer? Can't we just get him some special shoes? It shouldn't hurt his defense. In theory his strike zone would be smaller, even though I don't think MLB umpires change their zone depending on player height. A few inches in height shouldn't matter if he can hit.

[endaround]

Height in general means more power. In Salome's case that isn't an issue. The issue with him is that his height means he can't play 1B. His injury seems to have sapped his speed with means OF is unlikely. So that means C or DH. And there are serious questions about his catching ability.

[strawbossisevil]

We don't know how much the injury "sapped his speed" for the long term, so that is merely speculation. But I agree he is likely a C or a DH, but by all accounts the guy has improved quite a bit behind the plate. He still isn't throwing out a lot of runners, but I suspect with another year under his belt he will only get better. The guy has a great arm, he just has to be quicker releasing the ball, something that will come with time.

 

Will he ever be Molina? Probably not. But he'll likely be better than Estrada was for us two years ago. I'm of the belief that while he may not be the best with the glove, he'll be close enough to average that he'll be just fine at catcher. The offense he adds to the lineup will more than make up for a defense that is slightly below the MLB average.

 

And as End mentioned, his height seems like a non-issue. Since the only reason height is desired is that it generally correlates to power. We all know Salome can slug without the extra two or three inches.

 

As for Lucroy, I want to see him at AA before I think he is the next big MLB catching prospect. I've seen far too many catchers stall out once they get to AA.

[jjfanec]

And as End mentioned, his height seems like a non-issue. Since the only reason height is desired is that it generally correlates to power. We all know Salome can slug without the extra two or three inches.

The concerns about Salome's height are definitely not a non-issue. They are a non-issue when it comes to his ability to hit and at least profile as a catcher, but it is a huge issue if his defense behind the plate does not improve because he is a man without a second position. A guy like Lucroy could probably play 1B much like other prospects like Clement and Salty are able to. Other prospects who are not catchers only can afford to be bad at one position because they can just be moved like Braun. Salome does not have that option unless he is on a AL team. It is actually a lot like Prince in a couple years. If his defense continues to deteriate he is a DH only guy much like Salome could be if he does not become a better defensive catcher. He has time to become a better catcher. A lot of catchers progress later. Geovony Soto did not start in the bigs until he was 25. Salome is 22 so he has time.

[strawbossisevil]

I really have my doubts that Salome is as epically bad as some try to make him out to be. He has a strong arm and his ability to call a good game has progressed nicely. Give him another year, and he'll likely be even better.

 

I seriously doubt he'll be any worse defensively than Estrada was during his time here in Milwaukee. Although the difference between him and Estrada is that Salome profiles as a legitimate middle of the order bat.

 

I see Salome in the same way that I see Fielder. Both may be below average in the field, but their offense more than makes up for the difference. But the biggest difference between Salome and Fielder is that Salome plays a premium position, where as Fielder does not. Getting offense out of a position where you generally do not, is a huge plus.