Doug Melvin's takes on Prince, Rickie, J.J., Corey (as reported by The Capital Times)

[hawing]

Link to Capital Times story from Dennis Punzel. Presumably he had Doug's ear at the annual Dug-Out Club gathering last week in Madison.

 

It's nice to see this much ink (or, since the Cap Times is now web-only, screen text) devoted to the Brewers, maybe especially coming from outside Milwaukee.

 

(I thought about adding this to the arby raises thread, but the focus isn't so much on arbitration issues.)

[TooLiveBrew]

Melvin insists that Weeks compares favorably with Baltimore Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts, who is often held up as an example of the player Weeks should be.

 

"I'm hoping Rickie can become Brian Roberts," he said. "At the age of 25 he's done more than Brian Roberts did at 25, and Brian Roberts is a very good player. Rickie just might be a little bit of a late bloomer. He scares me to death to trade. He could just take off, so we're going to exhaust all our efforts with Rickie."

 

Very glad to hear that from Melvin... not that it wasn't already pretty obvious. 2009 will be a huge season for Rickie, and I will again set myself up for disappointment by hoping for that breakout year.

 

 

Melvin isn't ready to alter his assessment of Hart's ability based on one horrific month. But he's counting on Hart learning from the experience.

"I think if you look at every player you will find that they have a month or six weeks when they completely fizzle," Melvin said. "It just so happened his was in September. I see him learning from that. That's the maturity part of it."...

 

I sure hope the focus on just "one month" is from the author Punzel, & not Melvin. While he still had the power numbers, Hart's on-base ability was poor in June, July, August, & September.

[CheezWizHed]

Wow, I read the title and expected a war! Glad to hear its only his views on those players. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Invader3K]

Wow, I read the title and expected a war! Glad to hear its only his views on those players. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Yeah, unless Melvin has some martial arts black belt I haven't heard about, I'm pretty sure those four guys would mop the floor with him.

[Fatter than Joey]

and I will again set myself up for disappointment by hoping for that breakout year.

 

I think it won't be as bad as that movie with the clones.

[Thurston Fluff]

Very glad to hear that from Melvin... not that it wasn't already pretty obvious. 2009 will be a huge season for Rickie, and I will again set myself up for disappointment by hoping for that breakout year.

 

glad I'm not the only one in the I believe he's going to break out boat. While I'm in agreement with you it's hard to keep hearing the "this year will be huge for him" or the ever famous "he's in a make or break year," without cringing. This is about the third such year like that.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think if Rickie came out and did only as much as hitting .270 with 20+ homers with his usual walks and HBP, people would be mighty pleased.

[fondybrewfan]

I think if Rickie came out and did only as much as hitting .270 with 20+ homers with his usual walks and HBP, people would be mighty pleased.

At this point I would be happy if Rickie can manage a .360 OBP and get 20 + steals. I don't care how he gets the OBP, be it walks or hits, I just want .360. That can at least be considered average for a lead off man I think.

[1992casey]

.360 is probably above average (sadly), but it's below the .375 or so that I'd like to see at leadoff. Still, Rickie can carry a decent SLG percentage and decent stolen base percentage. If he has a .360 OBP, SLG and stolen bases should come along with it as part of the package.

[Ennder]

last year NL players had a .342 OBP batting from the leadoff spot. Weeks hit .342 on the nose so was exactly average. He was above average in 2006 and 2007.

[joepepsi]

Ok, time for me to brag. I've done the same comparisons of Rickie to Brian Roberts. Hey, Doug, give me a call, I'd love a career change. One that pays enough to cover the head gasket job I just gave the OK to the mechanic. Of course the comparisons break down on defense. Roberts is an excellent 2B.

 

Good article. Thanks for the link.

[ILuvDaBush]

And in the power department. Rickie is all natural. Roberts...had Brady Anderson's trainer.

[Gobias Industries]

I think if Rickie came out and did only as much as hitting .270 with 20+ homers with his usual walks and HBP, people would be mighty pleased.

Well yeah, I would hope so. That would make him one of the top offensive 2B in the game.

 

It's pretty cool that Melvin confirms stuff about Weeks that we've all been discussing the last year or so: being instructed to take pitches by the team, is underrated by the casual fan, comparing favorably to Roberts, and being afraid to trade the guy in fear of him blowing up someplace else.

[JonnyLungs]

Baseball-Reference.com has Bobby Grich as his number two most comparable player through age 25 also. I sure wouldn't complain about a Bobby Grich career for Weeks.

 

Needless to say, I'm guessing his performance this year will determine whether it happens in Milwaukee or elsewhere.

[JJHardy7]

Very glad to hear that from Melvin... not that it wasn't already pretty obvious. 2009 will be a huge season for Rickie, and I will again set myself up for disappointment by hoping for that breakout year.

 

I know you like Weeks and I've wanted him to pan out the past few years. I believe in other threads I've called him our 'off-season addition' in the past if he plays the way we think he can. I'm not one to say Weeks is terrible or anything like that. I just think his offense doesn't make up for his defense. I know Weeks is debated around here based on his draft pick and to me...that is fair. I know a lot of first round picks don't make it to the big leagues and I've seen that first hand. Rickie put up some darn good numbers and hasn't produced in the bigs. To me, it's not a level of talent. It's finding the right hitting coach that clicks with Weeks. If it's not that, Rickie isn't putting forth enough effort. I know that sounds harsh, but he does have the ability to not only be one of the best hitting 2B in the league, but to be one of the better players in the league...or at least he's shown that promise. I know Brian has said he's seen it first hand and I've debated that with him, but comparing what Weeks did to now he has shown the talent in the minors and Brian is right. I can no longer sit here and think 'thank goodness we still have Rickie so when he breaks out we were right'. I'm more in the boat of let's groom a replacement and if Rickie happens to find the potential most of us think he has that's a good problem to have.

 

I guess for the stats and such it can be debated all day. I'm sure people will point out more lead off stats and OBPs, but Rickie wasn't drafted to be a league leader in OBP while displaying little home run power and striking out a lot. If that's what he is, he has a major league career...it just likely won't be as a starting caliber player for much longer. Rickie has the tools...he just has to find a way to make it click. I know I have given Sheets and Fielder hard times for what I consider poor conditioning habits (not saying I'm right on those), but I'm also wondering about Rickie and his work ethic. I don't think anyone in the minors would've said that Weeks would be behind Braun, Fielder, Hardy, Hart (hopefully it was a 'slump'), and potentially Gamel, Escobar, and Salome in terms of future MLB ceiling. I know not everyone of those players fits based on projections and the end of last year, but a few years ago it was 'clear' in the eyes of some that Weeks was going to be a better hitter than Prince...that has been far from the truth so far.

[dvoiss]

Baseball-Reference.com has Bobby Grich as his number two most comparable player through age 25 also. I sure wouldn't complain about a Bobby Grich career for Weeks.

Yeah I'll take another Bobby Grich anyday. Great hitter. I agree with Melvin that trading Rickie is a risky proposition at this point. That's the kind of trade that could ruion a GM's career. I expect Rickie to break out this year and having Randolph aboard should help his glove work.

[clancyphile]

Weeks had OBPs of .363 and .374 in 2006 and 2007, respectively.

 

I'd like to see Weeks post a .270 average with the .139 OBP - AVG differential he had in 2007, with 40 doubles and 60 steals.

 

If Weeks does that, the Brewers will do very well indeed.

[RU Rah Rah]

Baseball-Reference.com has Bobby Grich as his number two most comparable player through age 25 also. I sure wouldn't complain about a Bobby Grich career for Weeks.

Yeah I'll take another Bobby Grich anyday. Great hitter. I agree with Melvin that trading Rickie is a risky proposition at this point. That's the kind of trade that could ruion a GM's career. I expect Rickie to break out this year and having Randolph aboard should help his glove work.

Bobby Grich with the bat, maybe. With the glove? Never. (Four-time Gold Glover.)

 

So reports the guy who grew up watch the Orioles in the 1970's.....

[LouisEly]

He scares me to death to trade. He could just take off, so we're going to exhaust all our efforts with Rickie."

 

That statement has some interesting connotations to it. My interpretation of it is that Melvin is frustrated with Rickie's performance to the point where he has seriously considered trading him, but is torn between performance and potential. I think it was Casey Stengel who once said, "'Potential' is a French word - it means you're not worth a damn yet." At some point you have to draw the line between performance and potential when they aren't congruent, and I think Melvin has been straddling that line with Weeks.

[Fatter than Joey]

That statement has some interesting connotations to it.

 

Indeed -- DM also runs the risk of sitting on him until he no longer has any trade value, which is I think, the implied struggle for DM.

 

I have no problem trading Weeks and then seeing him do well with another team (like Overbay), as long as you get good value for him again like we did with Overbay (Bush). I am not the biggest Dave Bush fan, but we certainly needed the pitching rotation depth.

 

The difference of course, and I think what ultimately makes Weeks's situation hard for Melvin -- is that there is no 2b in our system pushing Weeks. I believe that if we had a somewhat decent 2b in AAA, DM would trade Weeks yesterday.

[Ennder]

I think that statement could mean almost anything and people are just going to assume it means what they want it to.

[topper09er]

I think the departure of Jim Skaalan is the final piece in the puzzle that will cause a bunch of our underperforming hitters to finally break out. I mean, he has got to be one of the worst hitting coaches I have ever seen. How could he possibly look at the approaches that Weeks/Hall/Hart take every at bat and be happy with it. How many times are these guys taking massive HR swings with 2 strikes on an offspeed pitch away or rolling over on outside pitches weakly grounding out to short, waaaaayyyyyy too much. Sveum said after the playoffs the team needs to learn how to take better approaches because when you get to the playoffs you face good pitching (Hamels) who can easily get HR hitters out with off speed stuff and he just totally dominated the brewers. If Sveum is going to force these guys to hit the ball where it is pitched and shorten up with 2 strikes and things like this they will all break out and we will surprise a lot of people with our improved hitting. That is basically what Hall did all of 2006, when he hit .270 with 35 HRs. Then he starting trying to hit homers and now he is about as good as me against RHP and has no power. Weeks has done this his entire career, constantl striking out while taking massive swings and no one seemed to care/say something to him like "shorten up." Instead, Yost and others were just like I beleive in my guys and always stand behind whatever they do even if they are taking horrible approaches to try to hit a few HRs. I think Weeks deserves another chance with a real baseball coach/manager who will demand he plays the game correctly, if they do and he still sucks then trade him, but I think he will be much better this year if Sveum forces them to take major league approaches.