I am leaning heavily toward CV as a starter...

[Hate those Rodents]

I know he only went about five solid innings and always seemed to get rocked in the sixth inning last year. However, I much prefer going with him as a starter next year as opposed to as a reliever. I actually like our bullpen quite a bit even without CV. It just seems to me that CV "might" have had a string of bad luck in starts last year. He'd been a starter that'd been solid in higher quantity pitched-starts in the minors. I also have to think there is some off-season program to help him increase his durability. Given that we seem to be waiting for 2010 to compete again (or at least that even Brewer management seems to be taking a wait and see approach), I'd rather go with the younger CV as a starter as opposed to Suppan.

[chansen]

I would like him as a long reliever. I heard that Melvin and company would like him to possibly set up Hoffman. Either way, I think he is more useful in the bullpen.

 

I am not to entrigued about the idea of McClung as a starter but he does have some experience.

[JohnBriggs12]

HTR,

 

Villanueva didn't have a problem with stamina in 06 and 07 when he started. It's unfortunate for some of us that liked Villanueva as a starter that he's being labeled as a failure based on 9 2008 starts (3 of which qualified as quality starts I might point out) and not being judged on his good work starting in 06 and 07 when called upon.

 

Ironically though his "failure" as a starter may end up being a blessing. Villanueva's success is almost completely dictated by his ability to command his fastball even though his fastball is no better than his 3rd best pitch (behind his change and slider). When he commands is fastball, it sets up all of his other pitches including his devastating changeup and a tight rotation slider. He also has a decent curveball that he uses effectively because he can get it over on the first pitch when hitters are looking fastball.

 

I think all his trouble as a starter stemmed from inconsistent command of the fastball. He wasn't getting it where he needed consistently. Now part of that might be that it was early in the season and he hadn't settled in. But part of it could be he just needed more regular work that he ended up getting out of the pen.

 

As far as being a "long reliever", he's well beyond that. Villanueva showed coolness late in tight games. He was also outstanding in the playoffs. Macha said publically if Hoffman hadn't been signed, Villanueva was number one option to close. Melvin compared him to former Royal Jeff Montgomery. I think the Brewer brain trust now sees Villanueva as the closer of the future, probably as soon as 2010. Because of that he's going to get the 8th inning this year. I think he'll learn a lot being around Hoffman and I think that's another reason the Brewers went hard after Hoffman as he's the perfect model for Villanueva to follow.

 

I don't see Villanueva going back to starting any time soon. Not that he couldn't succeed there, but he's already been successful as a reliever.

[TheCrew07]

Villy and Parra are both young pitchers with the same problem, they nibble too much. The difference between them is that Parra is LH and his stuff is significantly better all the way around. I hope Parra picked up some pointers from CC about attacking hitters because in my opinion he wastes too many pitches. I was pleased what he was doing in the middle of the season so I have great expectations that he'll trust his stuff more. Villy pitches differently as a RP, or at least he did last year, he didn't spend so much time trying to paint the corners with fastballs as a RP. I realize location is everything for a pitcher but there's a fine line to pitching, a SP isn't able to give away an extra 5 pitches every inning and pitch effectively into the late innings. I have no problem with a our young starters hitting the 100 pitch count in the 7th, hitting it in the 5th drives me nuts.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Villy is a good pitcher but seems to have more success as a reliever. At this point I would be willing to give him another shot in the rotation because McClung will never be more than a 5 inning guy that will kill our bullpen.

[Ennder]

Villy has been so much better as a RP that at this point I'd probably just leave him in the bullpen and use him in a Marmol type of role where he comes in for a tough spot in the 7th and then does the 8th as well.

[mletto157]

Villy has a reliever mentality. I've heard him say that when he gets called into the game... most of the time he doesn't even know what inning it is, what the situation is... or anything like that. He doesn't want to know.

 

Parra will be fine. I think he'll be a great pitcher. If you look at his minor league stats, he didn't walk near as many as he did last year. Once he starts attacking hitters like he did in the minors he'll be fine, and I think he'll start doing that this year.

[giffted1]

At this point I would be willing to give him another shot in the rotation because McClung will never be more than a 5 inning guy that will kill our bullpen.

McClung's short starts were the result of not being stretched out to start more than anything, IMO. His problem wasn't that he was wasting too many pitches, it was that he'd simply wear out by the 5th or 6th inning (a much easier problem to fix). He went over 100 pitches only once. Given the opportunity to get stretched out and follow a consistent schedule, I think he'll do much better in that regard.

 

I'd prefer to keep Villanueva in the pen where he excelled as long as McClung can continue to be a serviceable starter.

[Patrick425]

When I first saw the title of the thread, I thought maybe Ken Macha had tapped into BF.net.

[cwolf2012]

I would support him getting a shot if one of our starters is struggling. SPs have so much more value, and if he can be a 4 ERA starter or a 3 ERA reliever, I'd take the starter any day.

[Ennder]

Maybe McClung will go all Dempster on the league, who knows~.

 

I'm also not convinced 80 IP of 3.50 ERA RP when used in the highest leverage situations isn't as valuable as 190 IP of 4.50 ERA starter.

 

A RP who is used like Marmol was last year is getting a lot more value out of each of his IP than a starter. I just don't know if that value is enough to make up for the fewer innings or not.

[Gobias Industries]

Villy has been so much better as a RP that at this point I'd probably just leave him in the bullpen and use him in a Marmol type of role where he comes in for a tough spot in the 7th and then does the 8th as well.

This is what I'm hoping for as well. He'll get more innings than a standard SU guy and hopefully some of the more higher leverage ones as well. I think if all goes well this year, he'll most likely be our closer in 2010.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I think if all goes well this year, he'll most likely be our closer in 2010.

I think it's ok to say he's an option for the 2010 closer job, but I wouldn't jump the gun and say he's most likely to be just that. We have a lot of other possible options in Dillard, Pena, and Aguilar if they have a breakout year. Who knows, maybe Julio bounces back or Morlan develops into a stud. There's just too many things that can happen for me to label Villy as our 2010 closer right now.

[cwolf2012]

If Mark DiFelice isn't going to be relieving for this team, I'm going to be FURIOUS if Luis Pena is.

 

http://minors.baseball-re...com/players.cgi?pid=26032

 

49/47 K/BB last year with a 7 ERA and a 2 WHIP. Career 4.15 ERA and 1.45 WHIP in the minors. This guy will never touch the majors, and never should.

[endaround]

Pena had one bad year in AAA and suddenly he stinks? Yes Pena shouldn't be in Milwaukee to start the year, but to say he should never touch the majors is just ridiculous.

[cwolf2012]

He's only had one good season in the minors, and everything else has been mediocre to bad. At 25 years old, he should be shredding people in the minors. His last two seasons combined average out right to his career norms in the minors, which is an above 4 ERA and about a 1.4 WHIP. That is not very good. Like I said, if he gets a shot before DiFelice, I'm going to be angry.

[JonnyLungs]

He's only had one good season in the minors, and everything else has been mediocre to bad.

That one good year in the minors also coincided with a move to the bullpen. And if I'm not mistaken, he's had some injury issues. I agree that DiFelice should be above him on the depth chart but given Pena's stuff, if he starts blowing away AAA I could see him passing DiFelice next season.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

He throws 96 mph, though. You can't teach velocity. He still has time to figure things out. Good organizations don't lose patience with pitchers like Pena.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think DiFelice will actually be a nice backup SP option, so him being in AAA might not be a bad thing, if it's done so he can be kept on a starter's rest/cycle.

 

But given the choice between Pena & DiFelice as a RP, I'd pick DiFelice as of now.

[strawbossisevil]

Back to CV. I think he is a solid guy to have in the case that someone goes down with an injury. He may be able to step in and be a solid injury replacement. It's why I thought it was a good move to shore up the bullpen first, because it freed up Villy for use in the rotation if something were to happen. If we didn't have a solid closer, it's quite possible that CV would have been our closer, and in that case, he would not be as available to be used as a starter if the need would arise.

 

Obviously, I'd prefer that we'd have better depth at SP than we do, but with the money we had to spend, I'm glad we used it where we did. I think we are as thin on SP depth as the Cubs. CV = Heilman in my mind. But, we did the best we could with the money we had while maintaining a degree of flexibility.

[paul253]

Before last season I was all for CV as a starter. Then he was a starter, and he wasnt very good, so I figured keep him in the pen. Now I'm in the middle. Our starting pitching depth is just awful, with Seth McClung, who pitched most of the year out of the pen, Dave Bush, who was so bad away from home he had to be "platooned", and Chris Capuano, who missed the entire season, as half of our depth. I certainly wouldn't mind giving CV a chance again, as I dont think theres any way he can be worse than Suppan and if he is successful we have three good young arms in Gallardo, Parra, and Villanueva to build around for a few more years. If he is in the pen, i'd like to see him in a permanent 8th inning role setting up Hoffman. Hoffman will likely be gone next season and it would save a lot of money if we can fill the closer role internally. Neither Pena nor Aguiler would be ready for that. Plus, we've got a good number of arms to at least throw out in the pen, and losing CV wouldn't kill it. The one thing I dont want to see is them using him as the long relief guy....ala Elmer Dessens. Its such a waste of his talent.

[monty57]

There's no way he will be the long reliever in the sense Elmer Dessens was, where he would only pitch if the team was up or down about six runs. The only way he could be considered a long reliever is that if a starter goes five innings and the score is 1-0, Villy could step in and pitch 2 or 3 innings leading up to Hoffman. I think the best way to state where Villy will be to start this season is "the Marmol role."

 

I also don't see Villy as an option of starting games, as he will not be stretched out, and he will have too valuable a role in the bullpen. I'm with TooLiveBrew that I wouldn't mind seeing DiFelice start the season in AAA simply so that he would be stretched out and ready to step in when one of our pitchers gets injured.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

If DiFelice is starting games for us, I might throw up. He only throws one pitch and it travels about 84 mph. That really scares me. I'd rather see him as our long man in the pen.

[And That]

DiFelice only throws one pitch and it travels about 84 mph.

This is not true. DiFelice throws 4 pitches. His fastball tops out in the high 80's. His cutter, the pitch he throws most often and the pitch I'm assuming you are referring to, sits around 82-84. He also throws a changeup and a curveball. I think he'd be an alright starting pitcher if he can effectively spot his fastball and changeup against lefties.

 

Back to CV, I agree that it depends whether you think it's more important to have him in the rotation with a ~4.50 ERA or in the bullpen with a ~3.00 ERA. Our rotation could use some depth, but his innings at the end of the bullpen have some value. I'm going to guess that the Brewers will add at least another starter to the mix, even if said starter isn't a great pitcher, and keep CV in the bullpen. I think the bullpen could be a strength of this team in '09, and CV will be an integral part of that strength.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

His cutter, the pitch he throws most often and the pitch I'm assuming you are referring to

You mean like 90% of the time?

 

He also throws a changeup and a curveball

And most scouts refer to them as "minus" pitches.