Payroll and some options for SP

[Crewin06]

Roderick,

 

Like Invader 3K said Attanasio has been saying that it is in the $80-85 million range. However everyone I know that has put together a budget including myself has the Brewers in the $75-78 million range. I don't know where Attanasio got his number from but I would love to know how he got it.

[And That]

It's possible that he's using a budget that contains all player-related costs in addition to salary (hotels, extra salary expenses they expect to incur later) and/or the salaries of minor league guys. Right now, going strictly by tabulating salaries their opening day payroll is definitely south of $80 mil. But the number Mark A. is using which I certainly think is valid by his standards might include any number of expenses the Brewers normally lump in to their payroll cost.

[Mass Haas]

Roderick wrote:

 

I am fairly new (or don't pay enough attention to names), what is this according to Mark? If by Mark, means you are using the 40 man roster salaries listed on bfan.net, please note that the kids that are in the minors do not get $400K a year.

 

I figure the 25 man roster as it currently stands at $76.25M (assuming Hart and Weeks at max arby and only a little above minimum for the unknown roster spots).

 

Hi Roderick. Let me explain one issue with the Brewerfan salary page that may clarify for all.

 

Each player on the 40-man roster is assigned a "salary" on our page. The salaries page normally displays only those on the 25-man roster plus the big league disabled list. But in the offseason, there is no "25-man roster" and the 40-man is listed.

 

Once the 15 or so 40-man minor leaguers get assigned to AAA or AA in the spring, they will no longer appear on our salaries page. But if one was to get called up, the salary info would appear for us.

 

We realize that a player like just-added Alex Periard won't make $400,000 next spring while in Huntsville.

 

Just a technicality, but a good question.

 

 

[RU Rah Rah]

If Kim and Armas are possibilities, I am suiting up and heading down to Maryvale next month.

[brewjihad]

Chuck James won't pitch at all this year, he's out with an injury.

[TheCrew07]

link to support what brewjihad posted.

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/...ain.aspx?sport=MLB&id=387

[sbrylski]

I want to point out that with the economy worsening, it could be the best buyers market in a long time around the deadline. Most teams appear to already be pushing the limit on their payrolls, and if attendance numbers fail to meet projections due to more fans without money to spend, these teams would be seeing red, deep and quick. Clubs that are straddling the fine line between buyers and sellers may have extra motivation to choose to sell off some salary, and clubs that are clear sellers will have extra motivation to simply get a deal done. And by the same logic, there shouldn't be as many buyers who don't have room to add salary.

 

However, early ticket sales in Milwaukee are extremely encouraging - I would say its possible we could buck the trend and build on last year attendance success. Keeping to payroll flexibility and waiting for the trade market to ripen in July could be a very, very shrewd strategy.

[RU Rah Rah]

Reports today that Fogg might be headed to the Rockies in a minor league deal. The possibilities are diminishing by the day, it seems like....

[chansen]

I really didn't think about the options that the Brewers have. Great post by sbry!

 

The Crew have a high number of tickets sold already for 2009, prices are up, and they seem to build on the 2008 playoff performance.

 

They may push the payroll because the economy is so bad and it should be a buyers market. The Yankees already spent wayyy to much for the guys they received. Just think if they waited a while to sign Tex, CC, or Burnett.

[yoshii8]

I don't think the Brewers will have to even consider guys like Kim and Armas, when there are still so many free agent starting pitchers out there. I hope Melvin is bluffing when he says that they aren't planning on signing another starter, look at the list w/ less than a month to go before spring training:

 

Ben Sheets

Oliver Perez

Jon Garland

Randy Wolf

Braden Looper

Tom Glavine (Expected to be ready by start of season)

Odalis Perez

Paul Byrd (Said he is taking 1st half off)

[RU Rah Rah]

FWIW, a bunch of sources are reporting that Wolf is close to signing with the Dodgers. I think they'll either take him or Garland.

 

(I know that Garland isn't a world beater, but the guy is not yet 30 and apparently hasn't missed a start in his career. Are teams worried that he's pitched too many innings in the last seven years?)

[endaround]

Garland is coming off a poor year(for him that is, it was average for a starter) and was still likely expecting to get a raise over the $12m per he was making. A lot like Sheets he probably has been taken a back by a lack of offers and likely is hesitant to take a pay cut.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Garland is a younger Suppan. Unless he is signing for 2 mil or less I would pass.

[JohnBriggs12]

Garland is a younger Suppan. Unless he is signing for 2 mil or less I would pass.

 

When did Suppan throw 92-94?

 

From a random Gameday (7/31/08 vs. Yankees) here are Garland's fastball speeds in 1st 2 innings: 92, 93, 92, 94, 93, 93, 92, 93, 93, 93, 93, 92, 93, 94, 93, 93, 92, 92, 92, 92, 92, 93.

 

Garland has 106 major league wins and just turned 29. He gives up a lot of hits, because he pounds the zone with sinkers. Suppan is completely different. He moves the ball around the zone with a fastball 5 mph slower and generally straighter than Garland but uses more off speed stuff as his out pitches. Suppan relies on craft and speed changes. Garland relies on movement on his fastball.

[endaround]

Garland is not anywhere near Suppan. Suppan was above average once in the last 4 years (2007). Garland was basically average last year and good for the previous three years. Now his heavy workload calls into question how good he can be, but say at 2yrs/$15m he'd be a great pickup.

[chansen]

Good post endaround.

 

Reports are showing that the DBacks may be close to signing Garland. He rejected an offer two weeks ago from Arizona that was said to be in the 2yr/$13-$14 range. Talks have resumed. I don't think with the market that the offer actually would go up.

[Invader3K]

I think given the recent comments from Melvin and stuff reported by Tom Haudricourt, if the Brewers do sign any more starting pitchers, it probably won't even be someone on the Wolf/Garland level. It will probably be a reclamation type like a Mulder or Benson or someone like that. Not really exciting, but I think we need to be realistic about what the Brewers will be willing to go out and do at this point.

[chansen]

Here are a few sources and their projections for some current FA pitchers that the Brewers may look at.

 

John Garland-

CHONE- 30GS, 10-11 189 innings, 222hits, 98K/53BB, 4.71 ERA, VALUE= $7.5M

BILL JAMES- 30GS, 10-11 186 innings, 203 hits, 93K/57BB, 4.38 ERA,

MARCEL- 11-9 179 innings, 199 hits, 94K/52BB, 4.50 ERA,

 

Odalis Perez-

CHONE- 26GS, 7-8 134 innings, 154 hits, 84K/46BB, 4.84 ERA, VALUE= $4.6M

BILL JAMES- 30GS, 8-11 171 innings, 192 hits, 113K/48BB, 4.51 ERA

MARCEL- 7-11 151 innings, 176 hits, 103K/54BB, 4.95 ERA

 

Tony Armas-

CHONE- 21GS, 5-6 102 innings, 111 hits, 72K/34BB, 4.68 ERA, VALUE= $4.2M

MARCEL- 3-4 61 innings, 65 hits, 45K/24BB, 4.94 ERA

 

Josh Fogg-

CHONE- 24GS, 6-8 129 innings, 151 hits, 70K/46BB, 5.16 ERA, VALUE= $2.5M

BILL JAMES- 15GS/21G, 3-6 83 innings, 97 hits, 44K/28BB, 5.28 ERA

MARCEL- 6-7 110 innings, 126 hits, 69K/41BB, 5.32 ERA

 

Mark Mulder-

CHONE- 12GS, 2-4 57 innings, 72 hits, 29K/27BB, 6.16 ERA, VALUE= $400K

MARCEL- 3-4 55 innings, 64 hits, 38K/23BB, 5.48 ERA

 

 

I like Odalis Perez as the possible option.

 

I will add some more in a bit.

 

 

Comments?

[yoshii8]

I'd probably be easier if you just put these in the other thread about SP. I also like Odalis Perez as a cheap option.

[chansen]

Kris Benson-

CHONE- 13GS, 4-4 77 innings, 84 hits, 42K/25BB, 4.79 ERA, VALUE= $1.7M

MARCEL- 3-4 60 innings, 63 hits, 38K/22BB, 4.58 ERA

 

Chuck James-

CHONE- 24GS, 7-7 124 innings, 126 hits, 92K/54BB, 4.86 ERA, VALUE= $2.5M

MARCEL- 6-6 89 innings, 88 hits, 68K/37BB, 4.65 ERA

 

Jason Jennings-

CHONE- 18GS, 5-6 103 innings, 113 hits, 63K/45BB, 4.89 ERA, VALUE= $3.4M

MARCEL- 3-7 83 innings, 90 hits, 56K/33BB, 4.99 ERA

[Patrick425]

I wouldn't mind seeing them take a flyer on Jennings for less than $1M. If he's fully recovered, like he states he is, I think he could produce better numbers than those projections.

[Oldcity]

I wonder how much they'd be able to get Garland for. He's the only one in that list that you can say for certain is good enough to stay in the Brewers' rotation all season (even if it's as a number four starter). If they could get him for two years at most I'd probably be interested.

[chansen]

Looks like Garland and Arizona are closing in on a deal. They offered 2 years and $13-$14M for him two weeks ago. I think he realizes that with the current economic market, he isn't going to get a better deal than that.

 

We would probably have to do 2 years and $14.5 to get him considering no one really wants to come to Milwaukee.

[endaround]

And I'd do that in a second but it sounds like Melvin has to make sure the owners get another 8 figure profit this year.

[bklynbrewcrew]

What I dont understand is that we were willing to give CC 20 mil per year but arent willing to give half or a third of that for another starter. Is it really possible that Melvin went into this offseason knowing he would lose CC and Sheets and have no plans to replace either? I really have a hard time believing that we are going into the season with this current rotation. No doubt in my mind that we will kill the bullpen by the all star break with all the short starts we are gonna get from the likes of Suppan and espcially McClung who I am willing to bet never pitches 7 innings in a game.

 

Obviously we have no interest in Sheets or any other viable starting pitchers. I am shocked and very disappointed in Melvin and the owner for thinking we should go into the season with this awful rotation.