2009 Closer -- Hoffman to Brewers

[logan82]

I wouldn't call it insane. $10M per year looks to be the going rate for closers.

[PeaveyFury]

3/30 for Fuentes seems like a reasonable deal, actually. Considering that he's put up very good numbers while playing for the Rockies, I'd be on board with something along those lines.

[Hate those Rodents]

Closer - McClung

RHP - Villanueva

RHP - Coffey

RHP - Dillard

LHP - Swindle

LHP - Stetter

 

I count six guys (plus we could always end up putting a starter (Suppan?) there depending on what we do to our rotation) that I have confidence in and we'd roster seven max. Do we really need to spend nine figures per year on a seventh guy to complete the likely bullpen?

[Invader3K]

McClung has never been positioned as a closer. I'd rather see him used as middle relief or in a sixth starter type role. Heck, the way he pitched toward the end of this past season, he could win a starting rotation spot in spring training. Plus, with your projected bullpen, there are at least three guys in there with some big question marks as far as long term reliability.

[PeaveyFury]

I count six guys (plus we could always end up putting a starter (Suppan?) there depending on what we do to our rotation) that I have confidence in and we'd roster seven max. Do we really need to spend nine figures per year on a seventh guy to complete the likely bullpen?

 

While your count and roster make-up is likely correct, it leaves out the benefit of how much better a bullpen it could be if you replaced someone like Dillard with someone like Fuentes or KRod.

[paul253]

I'd be on board with signing Fuentes at 3/30. The deal is not absurdly long, and he fills one of the most glaring needs. Plus it doesnt force you to throw someone at closer who has never been a closer before, like CV or McClung. If you do that, and sign Sheets to a deal at either 2/24 or maybe a similiar 3/30, I'd be satisfied. You can then turn your attention to the offense, which I unfortunately see anything major happening now that we resigned Cameron. I just dont see any thirdbasement out there that are going to make that much of a difference. I just assume see a platoon of Mike Lamb and Bill Hall then to sign an average playter to a 3 year deal.

 

On a side not, does anyone know if we are going to offer arby to Shouse? I reasoned before that we should because either way is good. He's a type B so if he declines you'd pick up a second round pick which we could use on a pitcher, and if he accepts we have a fairly effective LOOGY in the pen.

[DHonks]

Man, McClung at closer just seems a lot like Turnbow....and I don't mean the Tbow that dominated at times

[RockCoCougars]

No way do I give Fuentes $30 million. I would rather give the money to Sheets for a two year deal, and try to get Kerry Wood and a couple of other "plus" arms for the pen.

[Hate those Rodents]

I don't think I or anyone can deny Fuentes/KRob improves the entire bullpen. I just don't think ten digits per year is a smart move for a reliever for the Crew given our market-size, arby guys, and much bigger need at starting pitching.

[logan82]

Closer - McClung

RHP - Villanueva

RHP - Coffey

RHP - Dillard

LHP - Swindle

LHP - Stetter

 

Riske dude, Riske. He was reliable until he got hurt. I am not advocating him as a closer because I think we would benefit more having him as a middle reliever because he can go more than an inning.

[Hate those Rodents]

Yep, forgot about good ol' David. That gives me seven reasons why I'd not throw ten million dollars per year at a reliever this offseason. Is that bullpen the best in baseball with those seven? No. But I see a strong arguement (not that I even agree but I do see a strong arguement) it's better than our starting pitching, fielding, or hitting at this point if you break down the 25man roster into four groups.

[colbyjack]

With all due respect, I don't really see how anyone could find comfort in that bullpen. I like Villanueva the best, McClung was solid this past year in a swing role, not as a closer, and Stetter proved to show that he's ready for the permanent fixture with the big-league club, but what have the rest of those guys done? That's a pretty big leap of faith to put the Brewers bullpen as the team's biggest strength, and even if that were true, that's not a very encouraging statement.

 

I'm still a little surprised that so many people are comfortable seeing the Brewers move forward with so many lingering questions despite coming off of their first playoff appearance in 26 years. I agree that money needs to be invested into other facets of the team, but that in itself isn't a reason not to invest in a closer.

[logan82]

I just don't want to invest the years more so than the money. I have no problem with the $10M per year, but I would much prefer a 2 year deal with an option for the third. I think our bullpen in it's current form is a bunch of solid, but not really much above average guys. We lack a high strikeout guy. A shutdown reliever. If we need an out, who would we call to come in and get that out? I would like a high K, low BB guy to complete our pen. I am just a little leery about investing a long term contract in that kind of guy given the up and down nature of relievers.

[endaround]

McClung is a high strikeout, guy, the problem is he's even higher walk guy. McClung's new found "control" had him at 4.7 BB/9. He's a slightly above replacement level pitcher. Coffey is a below average pitcher who had 7 good innings in September.

[Invader3K]

I kind of agree with logan...we do need a "lock the door" type of guy, especially with Torres not coming back (not that he necessarily fit into that mold anyway). I am not sure if Fuentes is that kind of guy either. Seems like looking at his numbers, he was pretty good, but not a lights out type. I do realize he pitched at Coors, which can affect things somewhat.

[Hate those Rodents]

I'm not comfortable with our bullpen as is, but I am less comfortable with our starters and holes in our lineup. I guess I come from a line of thinking that you fix/spend on bullpen after the other three areas (starting pitching, hitting, fielding) are "solved" first. I am not saying I am right, just my opinion on kinda how I'd operate this off-season as an armchair GM.

[PeaveyFury]

I'm not comfortable with our bullpen as is, but I am less comfortable with our starters and holes in our lineup.

 

That's certainly understandable. But assuming the Brewers don't sign CC or Sheets, where would they spend that 10 million dollars in free agency to address those issues? There are no bats that the Brewers are going to use that kind of money on, and I don't see them making a play at a high-priced starting pitcher either. The one spot in free agency that have players that would provide significant upgrades at is the bullpen, so that should be where they're spending their money.

 

It's hard to believe that the bullpen wasn't the Brewers biggest problem last season, and I don't see how taking one of the best pitchers out of the equation in Torres, and possibly taking another one out in Shouse and replacing them with unproven question marks like Dillard, Swindle, and Stetter does anything to address the team's biggest problem from last year. Yes, there are issues in the rotation and possibly in the lineup as well, but those are almost certainly going to be addressed through trade(s), not by spending 10 million on anyone in free agency.

[DHonks]

endaround, what about relievers that improve over time? I know Weathers was once a starter, but it took him 8 big league seasons to have his breakthrough year in Milwaukee.

 

It is possible that Coffey or McClung could be for real. I always was intrigued by Coffey as a Red. Although with McClung, I prefer him as a starter. I'd hate to have him come in, unable to throw strikes, while holding onto a 1-run lead. At least as a starter we have the chance to rally back if he has a bad inning.

[colbyjack]

I'm too with logan. I think the team really needs a closer, but I don't want to see a long-term commitment. As noted, the money per year doesn't bother me as much, and fortunately this year seems to be the perfect offseason to be in need of a closer with so many available both via free agency and trade. That should favor the teams in search of a closer, as the only guy that I can see getting more than three years at big money is K-Rod.

 

I'm not comfortable with our bullpen as is, but I am less comfortable with our starters and holes in our lineup. I guess I come from a line of thinking that you fix/spend on bullpen after the other three areas (starting pitching, hitting, fielding) are "solved" first. I am not saying I am right, just my opinion on kinda how I'd operate this off-season as an armchair GM.

 

Doug Melvin has been quoted as to feeling the same way. I understand having to wait to see how the budget shakes out, and of course Sabathia's situation seems to have placed the entire market on hold, but I personally am not a big fan of prioritizing your needs and addressing them one by one in order. If I could improve the team in any fashion, even if it isn't perceived to be the team's greatest need, I would make that move, as long as it doesn't break the bank, sooner rather than later.

[twobrewers]

I think the team really needs a closer, but I don't want to see a long-term commitment.

That is why I support McClung as our closer. I really think he could be a good "Turnbow" for at least a year. McClung certainly seems to have that "closer" make-up and is approaching the rockstar/hero status in Milwaukee. (He gets a great round of applause - and has really embraced Milwaukee)

 

Even if McClung fails, we will still have other options internally such as Riske or Villanueva. (Or even Pena or Aguilar should they pitch well in the minor league)

 

That said, Fuentes at 3 years and 30 million seems like a much better deal that Cordero at 4 years and 44 million. I am starting to think that with the exception of CC and Tex, this is really going to be a buyers market all winter. (The Cubs might have really overpaid for Dempster)

[sheetskout]

http://sports.yahoo.com/m...cpHLsRvLYF?urn=mlb,125458

 

"Mets will shop for cheaper alternative to K-Rod, Fuentes" www.yahoo.com

[brewmann04]

on today espn bottom lime according to Peter Gammons report the mets as confident that Can sign K Rod to a 3 year deal seems like he

believes no one else will be competing

[fleehaw]

According to MLBTR, Fuentes is supposedly looking for a 3yr/$32-36M contract. I'd have no problem giving that to him.

 

FWIW, Fuentes has a better WHIP, K/9, and save percentage than Francisco Cordero. And only trails him by 0.1 in ERA.

[endaround]

endaround, what about relievers that improve over time? I know Weathers was once a starter, but it took him 8 big league seasons to have his breakthrough year in Milwaukee.

 

It is possible that Coffey or McClung could be for real. I always was intrigued by Coffey as a Red. Although with McClung, I prefer him as a starter. I'd hate to have him come in, unable to throw strikes, while holding onto a 1-run lead. At least as a starter we have the chance to rally back if he has a bad inning.

 

What do you mean for real though? McClung's FIP was 4.48 mostly in relief which is basically what you expect a replacement level reliever to look like. Coffey's was 4.97 for the year which is bad but he has been better before.

[nate82]

3/30 for Fuentes would be a steal. That isn't a long term deal either 3 years is medium length contract not really a long contract and not really a short one either. I would take Fuentes at 3 years for $30 million every day of the week. 3 years is a short time when you are looking at CC's deal for 5 years that is a long contract 3 years is not a long term commitment. That would be a steal if the Brewers could get Fuentes for 3/30.