2009 Closer -- Hoffman to Brewers

[Fatter than Joey]

That's not being defensive, it is just looking at the facts.

 

I think that there are a lot more opportunities to make money in the big cities outside of a player's MLB salary.

[JohnBriggs12]

Hoffman has 3 young boys, and signing with LA means more time to spend with them. Frankly, if I'm in his shoes, I take the Dodger offer. Sure he could uproot them and get a home in Milwaukee, but why go through all that? At 41 your priorities are different than they are at say 29.

[Patrick425]

What examples are there of FA's the Brewers have seriously pursued that chose to sign elsewhere because they didn't want to play in Milwaukee? That's not being defensive, it is just looking at the facts. Had the Brewers made the same offers to CC, Texiera, Rodriguez instead of the Yankees/Mets, do you think for one second they wouldn't be playing here? Of course they would.

Wow, I couldn't disagree with this more. All things being equal a player is going to choose to play in a bigger and/or warmer city. The Brewers have not made offers to the players you mentioned, because they know it's a waste of time. This is why it's not easy to come up with an example.

[SDOwen28]

I think it is a deal that needs to be made. Probably 2/12 to 2/14 would get it done. The latest rumor this morning is that the Dodgers are only interest in a one year deal.

 

And besides having TREVOR coming out in the ninth inning to Hell's Bell's would make Miller park explode. The only other intro song that comes close is Rick Vaughn's Wild Thang.

Enter Sand Man...Mariano Rivera

[Oldcity]

Fuentes this year is a good example. Melvin was interested, but Fuentes had his mind set on the west coast. Melvin even had a comment along the lines of 'well there's nothing we can do if he wants to be out west.'

[naivin]

All things being equal a player is going to choose to play in a bigger and/or warmer city. The Brewers have not made offers to the players you mentioned, because they know it's a waste of time.

Because they don't have the money, and that's the point. all things are not equal. The only test cases I could think of would be Sabathia and Cordero, and in the end, CC wasn't even close, and Cordero didn't seem to care where he played, he went for the highest offer. They 'wasted their time' trying to extend Carlos Lee (perhaps only for appearances), and weren't even in the ballpark.

 

If the premise were true, you'd think the Brewers would be losing out on middle of the road guys like Cameron, Gagne, etc. Yet, I cannot off the top of my head think of single case where the Brewers seriously pursued a FA where 'all things were equal' and they lost the guy to a warmer/bigger city. They lose guys due to money and years. Hoffman could trun out to be an exception, but I am hope all would agree that would be much more a function of LA being 100 miles from his home, than it is a function of Milwaukee being Milwaukee.

 

Again, there is absolutely no evidence to support the claim that players don't want to play in Milwaukee; plenty of evidence to support the claim that Doug Melvin isn't crazy about signing big FA contracts, and that players don't want to play for a smaller contract then they can get from someone else.

[naivin]

Fuentes this year is a good example. Melvin was interested, but Fuentes had his mind set on the west coast. Melvin even had a comment along the lines of 'well there's nothing we can do if he wants to be out west.'

Not sure what that is a good example of exactly...If you use that to conclude that players don't want to play in Milwaukee, then you would also have to conclude that players don't want want to play in Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Miami...Anywhere east of Phoenix I suppose.

[endaround]

How is Fuetnes a bad example? The market for him was soft but he still choose LA over Milwaukee. Another example is Johnson, he went to a losing team in San Fran that might squeek to .500 over Milwaukee,

[RightFieldCoder]

Squeeking over .500 in the West might make the playoffs. Or he could come to Milwaukee where 90 wins doesn't let you win a division over the Cubs. We have to remember that the NL West is also the easiest division to go win at this point in time.

[Patrick425]

I think Tbadder said it best. If you are a ballplayer in between the ages of 25-35 and you are offered the same amount of money to play in NY or LA (or even Chicago) as Milwaukee as offering you, unless you have previously played in Milwaukee and perhaps have a comfort level there, I think it's a pretty logical answer that the player is going to choose to play in the bigger or warmer city with more things to do. How many ball players are going to be willing to move there families to Milwaukee year-round?

Do your really think Milwaukee has a great image? Just travel around the country and ask people what they think of when they think of Milwaukee. I don't think you are going to get a lot of positive responses if they even know where Milwaukee is located in the first place.

I'd like to see an example of where a player was offered the same amount of $ to play in Milwaukee as he was NY, LA, Atl, or someplace like that and chose Milwaukee over one of those cities. You are not going to come up with a text book example either way.

[logan82]

I cannot off the top of my head think of single case where the Brewers seriously pursued a FA where 'all things were equal' and they lost the guy to a warmer/bigger city

 

There were many free agents we didn't pursue because we were told they were not interested.

[jjfanec]

I cannot off the top of my head think of single case where the Brewers seriously pursued a FA where 'all things were equal' and they lost the guy to a warmer/bigger city

 

There were many free agents we didn't pursue because we were told they were not interested.

Who are these many free agents? I am not disagreeing that there were not any, but outside of Fuentes and Randy Johnson I cannot think of any. But it was not that these guys did not want to come to Milwaukee, they did not want to go anywhere outside of the West Coast. I actually think signing someone like Hoffman or Randy Johnson is harder because they usually only have specific places they want to play and if they are unable to play there. They can simply retire or wait until mid-season to see if anyone on the coast is interested.

[fondybrewfan]

I really don't understand this argument. I would estimate that 9 out of every 10 free agents will probably take the most money and run. Every once in a while their will be a guy who values the location. Moreso he wants to play in a certain city, not that he doesn't want to play in a certain city.

 

If the roles were reversed and the Brewers offered CC 8/180, he would still be a Brewer. RJ wanted to stay out West, it wasn't that he didn't want to come to Milwaukee. Hoffman wants to stay out West, it isn't that he doesn't want to come to Milwaukee. Fuentes wanted to play out west, it wasn't that he didn't want to come to Milwaukee

 

I really don't think their is a good argument out there that players don't want to play in Milwaukee. Most of the time Milwaukee can't pay the same amount as other teams, that would be the reason a FA doesn't come here, the city of Milwaukee probably has a very minimal impact on that decision.

 

In my memory their has never been a FA that has publicly said that he chose a team other than the Crew because he didn't want to play in Milwaukee.

[naivin]

How is Fuetnes a bad example? The market for him was soft but he still choose LA over Milwaukee. Another example is Johnson, he went to a losing team in San Fran that might squeek to .500 over Milwaukee,

Those are terrible examples, just as Hoffman would be if he picks the Dodgers. Fuentes signed for 2 yrs/18 million, with a club option for a 3rd year at $9million that automatically kicks in if he finishes 55 games in 2010, with a team that is a couple hundred miles from his hometown. The Brewers never actually made him an offer. How is that a good example of a player not wanting to play in Milwaukee? Randy Johnson is from SF. He is 45 years old and has a history of back problems and signed for $8 million. He may have had some interest, but you think DM would have gone anywhere near that number? Again, nothing to indicate an offer was ever made. How is that a good example of a player not wanting to play in Milwaukee?

 

Those again are good examples of Doug Melvin not willing to pay the price the market sets. Not an example of players not wanting to play in Milwaukee. Even if the money/years were equal as was suggested earlier (which it has not been in any case), would a player wanting to play in a particular area/close to home, really constitute that player not wanting to play in Milwaukee?

[Patrick425]

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Milwaukee Brewers.

[naivin]

If you are a ballplayer in between the ages of 25-35 and you are offered the same amount of money to play in NY or LA (or even Chicago) as Milwaukee as offering you, unless you have previously played in Milwaukee and perhaps have a comfort level there, I think it's a pretty logical answer that the player is going to choose to play in the bigger or warmer city with more things to do.

 

That may be true, but that is a far cry from players not wanting to play in Milwaukee. Not even close to the same thing. Fact is, that has never really happened. With rare exception, players go where the biggest contracts are. If the Brewers are the ones offering the extra year or whatever, does that mean players don't want to play in (Insert city here)?

[Patrick425]

naivin[/b]]

Patrick425[/b]]

If you are a ballplayer in between the ages of 25-35 and you are offered the same amount of money to play in NY or LA (or even Chicago) as Milwaukee as offering you, unless you have previously played in Milwaukee and perhaps have a comfort level there, I think it's a pretty logical answer that the player is going to choose to play in the bigger or warmer city with more things to do.

 

That may be true, but that is a far cry from players not wanting to play in Milwaukee. Not even close to the same thing. Fact is, that has never really happened. With rare exception, players go where the biggest contracts are. If the Brewers are the ones offering the extra year or whatever, does that mean players don't want to play in (Insert city here)?

I think if you could look at the contracts of players who have "no-trade" clauses in their contracts, you would find cities like Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Minneapolis, KC in a majority of those contracts. Not because of money or winning history, but because players are hesitant to relocate their families to the rust belt for 6 or 7 months out of the year.

[naivin]

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Cincinnati Reds.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Minnesota Twins.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Oakland A's.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Florida Marlins.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Tampa Bay Rays.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Seattle Mariners.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Kansas City Royals.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Houston Astros.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Texas Rangers.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Detroit Tigers.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Cleveland Indians.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Toronto Blue Jays.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Washington Nationals

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Baltimore Orioles

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Texas Rangers.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Los Angles Angels

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Philadelphia Phillies.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the St. Louis Cardinals.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Colorado Rockies.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the San Diego Padres.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the San Francisco Giants.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the New York Mets.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Arizona Diamondbacks.

[brewerfan82]

I don't think the point is that players don't want to come to Milwaukee specifically, it's that the general region that Milwaukee is in isn't as appealing as those on either coast or in the South and that is definitely a disadvantage. That means to get those players Milwaukee HAS to outbid teams in favorable locations, where as teams in those locations most likely only have to match an offer from Milwaukee to have an advantage. You hear about players wanting to play on the West coast or the East coast all the time, you rarely hear about a player whose preference is to play in the Midwest. While money wins out most of the time, when a player makes it known that they want to play in a certain region, many times teams outside that region will dedicate their resources elsewhere rather than trying to pursue that player. It's not often that a coastal team considers itself out of the running before bidding begins because a player wants to play in the Midwest.

 

And that doesn't even consider the fact that it's easier for those teams to generate the money necessary to make substantial offers to big time free agents.

[jwill535]

Everyone will have a preferred place to play. When you are younger the desire to just be playing anywhere is what is important. Once you are an established player then where you want to play becomes more important. It is just like any job, most of us have a preferred place or area we want to work in but know that we may have to take the best position available to be able to establish ourselves in order to achieve what we want.

[Patrick425]

naivin[/b]]Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Cincinnati Reds.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Minnesota Twins.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Oakland A's.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Florida Marlins.

Yes, it's the life long dream of many young ball players to play for the Tampa Bay Rays.

.........etc, etc

.

.

 

Naivin, I understand your point. Young players want to play MLB period.

 

However, I think if a the Brewers signed a player, whether it's someone like Suppan or someone like Sabathia, it would sound a bit disingenuous if the player put on his jersey at the news conference and stated "It's always been my dream to put on a Milwaukee Brewer uniform" (Unless is was some local player like Counsell). Yet you hear that kind of stuff all the time from players that sign with the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers."It's always been my dream to wear Dodger Blue...It's always been my dream to wear the pinstripes".

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

And it looks like another one is going to bite the dust:

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/37227014.html

 

I just spoke on the telephone with Brewers general manager Doug Melvin, who told me he has not heard back today from Rick Thurman, the lead agent for free agent closer Trevor Hoffman.

That could be a bad sign for the Brewers. It might mean that Thurman and Hoffman have been finalizing details to do a deal with the Los Angeles Dodgers, the other team that has put in a bid for the all-time saves leader.

[SeriesFinale]

Disappointing...this would have made life easier in other areas, especially if Big Ben does indeed sign elsewhere.

[MillerParkSouth]

I won't give up hope until it's official, but that certainly does not look good. This will be an incredibly disappointing turn of events.

[Invader3K]

Can we just get some good news already? Boy, if Hoffman does sign with LA, this is going to continue a disappointing trend this winter.