2009 Closer -- Hoffman to Brewers

[colbyjack]

Instead of writing a different post for every single pitcher the Brewers may pursue to be their closer for next year, I thought one all encompassing post might be better.

 

And I'm doing so because the Brewers are linked to two such pitchers, Brian Fuentes and Huston Street, in this story:

 

http://www.nypost.com/sev...se_for_fuentes_136796.htm

 

The market for Fuentes is expected to be intense, with the Cardinals, Brewers, Indians and Angels among the clubs competing against the Mets...

 

...The Mets also will search for late-inning answers on the trade market and want to speak with Oakland about Huston Street for a possible role as a set-up man.

 

However, officials familiar with the A's thinking said that if the club decides to trade Street, Oakland expects to find better matches with Cleveland, Colorado and Milwaukee, all teams that also have inquired on Street.

[trwi7]

I really, really, really don't want Fuentes. Way too much money for a 70 inning pitcher and we have to give up our first round pick. I would much rather go after Brandon Lyon.

[fondybrewfan]

Kevin Gregg?

[Oldcity]

Fuentes is solid but I agree he isn't worth losing a first round pick. I wonder if the asking price for Street has come down at all.

[Crewin06]

I mentioned it on the first page but I thought I could bring it up here again.

 

Randy Johnson.

 

Not a type A free agent. No Draft picks. Older so probably not looking for a long term deal. and pitching 1 inning at a time might make him dominate once again.

 

If I were to give closer type money to a pitcher this year it would be to the Big Unit.

[sveumrules]

Randy Johnson.

 

i believe randy requires quite a bit of lead time on the days he starts to get his back up to task and the days between starts to rest/recover, especially now at his advanced age.

 

also, how much extra cash would it take to convince him to close while sitting on 295 wins?

 

now, for a year and 7 million plus incentives he'd be an interesting stopgap towards the top of the rotation...

[paul253]

I dont see the need to overpay, either with a trade or free agent money, for a closer. Torres is back and he did a fine job, until September of course, but he will do the job. I think they need to make CV the 8th inning guy, and maybe sign an FA or two to compliment Riske, Stetter/Shouse and possibly Dillard (I feel like I'm forgetting someone) That being said, if you can get a Huston Street for a reasonable (not top 10 prospect) I say go for it.

[Milltownhooker]

I think Todd Coffey is another nice in house option to close. He's always had ability & pitched very well coming over from Cinncy

[Hate those Rodents]

Stetter, if Shouse is resigned.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

I think Todd Coffey is another nice in house option to close. He's always had ability & pitched very well coming over from Cinncy

That was 7 innings you're talking about.

 

He's pitched 200 innings in his big league career that tell us he's a little south of average for a short reliever. If they want to bring him back for a cheap one year deal that isn't crazy, but it would be pretty loopy to expect anything better than an ERA between 4.20 and 4.40 out of him. He could certainly exceed that (short reliever ERA is an extremely high variance proposition from year to year), but it's just as likely that he gets Turnbowed right out of the big leagues in the first month of the season.

 

I just don't think it would be wise to count on him as one of the primary back of the bullpen options next year.

[And That]

Maybe if you throw enough money at Randy Johnson, he'd be willing to start for the first few months in order to get those five wins, and then transition into the bullpen. Then again, if he's pitching well, he's better served being in the rotation.

 

I believe Omar Aguilar is going to be our closer before too long, but not at the start of '09.

 

Brian Fuentes might be worth the draft pick. He's a really good pitcher. The money/length of contract would bother me more than the pick. I don't know why Beane would sell Street low, unless he has serious arm problems, in which case I'd be leery of Beane shopping him to me.

 

Sal Torres is on the roster if he doesn't retire, so why not him?

[yoshii8]

I would like to see Villanueva given a chance to be the closer, he was dominant last year after moving to the bullpen.

[twobrewers]

I don't think Torres poor September cost his the job. If he is on the roster - I bet he is the closer.

I hate the idea of spending a ton on a FA. Unless you are the Yankees/Red Sox etc, that just doesn't work economically.

Villanueva certainly has the mentality to handle the position.

Stetter actually has shown quite a bit to me as well. (He walks batters - but you just can't hit him)

Luis Pena sure has dropped out of the conversation hasn't he?

Haudricourt said Jeffress might end up pitching out of the pen this year for the MLB team on the D-List the other day.

Me, I'm just going to sit here and do nothing - It will all just randomly work out!

[endaround]

Pena lost his control for some reason. Going from 2.70 BB/9 in AA to 8.57 in AAA is strange. He could easily get it back and find himself in Milwaukee by June or be out of affiliated baseball by September.

[fondybrewfan]

What is Omar Aguilar's ETA? He struggled early but came on strong late in the year at AA. 9.9 K/9, a 1.26 WHIP, and 6.1 H/9 is pretty darn good considering his pretty poor start at Huntsville. It also looks like he regularly went more than 1 inning. We could use someone like that.

 

I don't think I would want him as a closer until he proved himself in the Bigs but it seems like he could be a solid contributor to the bullpen.

[JohnBriggs12]

Put me in the Villanueva camp. I'd get Juan Cruz and his heat to pitch the 8th, then bring in Villanueva to make hitters try to adjust and hit his devastating changeup in the 9th.

 

We had a glimpse of the fire that burns in Villanueva that night against the Cardinals. I'll take that makeup in my closer any day.

[colbyjack]

I'm not as concerned about giving up a first-round pick if the team gets one, or two, back if they lose Sabathia and/or Sheets. Torres pretty much fell apart down the stretch, as I don't feel comfortable moving forward with him as the team closer. Not for a team that just had a taste for the playoffs.

 

I'm a big proponent of moving Villanueva into that role, as I was last year before the team acquired Gagne. Although the team might be intent on keeping him in a more versatile role.

 

endaround makes a good point about Luis Pena. He could bounce back significantly next year, but definitely needs more time in AAA. Aguilar is pitching very well in the AFL so far, and is throwing a lot of strikes, but as Toby noted, you can't count on him to be the closer for '09 (or 2010 IMO). Jeffress has hard time throwing strikes, as I don't see how he's pitching out of the Brewers bullpen in 2009, especially since he has been shut down with a sore shoulder in the AFL.

 

I like the idea of Fuentes for 3 years, although I have been hoping that the team would go out and acquire Fuentes for a few years now. He may cost a first-round pick, but Street would cost probably more in prospects, and the internal options aren't particularly appealing for next year. Move Torres back to a set-up role which only strengthens the bullpen.

[recte44]

What's wrong with McClung as closer, Torres and Villy as set-up?

[raven2479]

What's wrong with McClung as closer, Torres and Villy as set-up?

 

I am with you 100%

 

I know he's valuable as a long reliever or even a spot starter, but the guy proved he has the bulldog mentality and can go out there and just throw gas, the typical closer stuff. Is he just too valuable in other positions to be the closer at this point?

[Invader3K]

I almost hope they don't designate a closer. I guess I've grown tired of the idea that you have to have a guy you can only use in the last inning, in close situations. It just seems like one of those weird baseball-isms that should be overlooked by a team like the Brewers.

 

That said, I'd be fine with any of McClung, Torres, or Villanueva getting a shot at it. I don't think the Brewers need to spend a ton on a "closer".

[logan82]

I don't like Torres, McClung or Villanueve as closer. In my opinion they should all be middle relief. It is a waste to put a pitcher who can go multiple innings in the closer role. Leave them in the 5th-8th inning stopper role. Bring in a one inning guy to be the closer. Better yet, leave Torres, McClung and Villanueva in middle relief and leave them in for the 9th inning if they pitch the 8th.

[Tbadder]

I don't want to make any moves outside the organization. I want every avenue explored before I go out and waste money and players on an established closer. I'd rather try Dillard (just an example) than package him and others to get Street (just an example). The chances are that the Crew are not going to be particularly competitive next year, so I'd concentrate on long range solutions to systemic problems (lack of prospects, 3B, CF, left handed hitting).

[kmcasper23]

I would prefer to try McClung personally. The way he mowed down Cubs hitters at Wrigley and again in the series finally. They guy throws 98 and has an awesome curveball. Give him a shot!

[colbyjack]

I'm not really confident about any of the internal options, outside of Villanueva, who doesn't profile as the prototypical closer (not that he needs to). Someone internally may very well be able to step up and anchor down that position, but that's a big if for a team that enjoyed it's first playoff berth in 26 years.

 

I think our bullpen would be better off keeping the guys we have in the roles they currently serve and supplementing them with someone that is proven, even if it means paying more than you would like to.

 

I also am not a big fan of having the closer be a role by committee. I can't think of an instance in which that has worked. I remember the Red Sox trying it prior to the 2004 season, and then when it didn't work they went out and dropped a lot of money to acquire Keith Foulke, only to enjoy their first World Series victory in almost a century. The Rays didn't have a defined closer this past year, at least they didn't after Percival went down, Wheeler looked spent in the playoffs and fortunately they had the #1 overall pick from the 2007 draft to step in an throw some key late innings for them. The Phillies of course had Lidge, who was somewhat of a risk entering the season but at least had some history of being very successful. The Red Sox gave up with the idea of Papelbon as a starter a year or two ago when they realize just how good and valuable he was as their closer. Rivera has been the most dominant closer ever, and K-Rod set the saves record this year for the Angels. The Mets collapsed and missed the playoffs, doing so without the services of Bill Wagner, the Cubs used a converted started (Wood) with power stuff, and fortunately the Brewers made it to the postseason despite Torres' late-season struggles.

 

And yes, you can point to how the Reds dropped a ton of cash on Cordero, but the Reds weren't particularly good in 2007. Most seemed to agree that the Reds were a curious destination for Cordero when he signed there.

 

I only bring all of this up, because I like the ideas most people are throwing out, but I wouldn't be comfortable with them if I were Doug Melvin knowing that anything less than the playoffs next year is going to be a disappointment to most of the fan base, not to mention himself. If he has to go to an internal option or a closer by committee situaiton once every option had been investigated, I can't argue with that, as I'm happy to hear the Brewers mentioned with some of the more appealing options that are available.

[CheezWizHed]

So do we go back to the shotgun method of finding a closer? Sign a couple guys for the BP (like Juan Cruz or other could-close relievers), throw in Vill, McClung, and Torres and see who ends up on top?