Time to get serious and trade Hart for pitching

[fleehaw]

An infield without Hall & Fielder should yield us 5 to 10 wins from improved defense alone.

Hall was one of the better defensive 3B last season. His problem isn't his glove, it's his bat.

 

If you replaced Fielder with a above average defensive 1B, I think you'd see a huge improvement from the entire infield. Someone who can pick a short hop or a somewhat errant throw would turn a lot of the previous season's errors into outs.

[3Putt]

I agree with your statement about our defensive improvement by replacing Prince. Failure to dig out bad throws plus being a poor fielder (no pun intended) and a small target certainly hurt us.

 

I can't agree with you about Hall's defense. He was leading the league in errors before being platooned. He once again finished with a fielding average below the league average. Billy is athletic and occasionally makes a highlight film but his failure to make the basic plays kills us. Throw in his attrocious hitting & baserunning and it's obvious we need to make a change. I'd say 2 1/2 seasons of bad play looks like the norm rather than a bad stretch.

[fleehaw]

I can't agree with you about Hall's defense. He was leading the league in errors before being platooned. He once again finished with a fielding average below the league average. Billy is athletic and occasionally makes a highlight film but his failure to make the basic plays kills us. Throw in his attrocious hitting & baserunning and it's obvious we need to make a change. I'd say 2 1/2 seasons of bad play looks like the norm rather than a bad stretch.

There are far better defensive metrics for a player than fielding percentage. Overall, Hall was above average defensively last season. Defensively speaking, neither Hall or for that matter Weeks, is the big problem on the Brewers infield, it's Fielder. On offense, Hall has been atrocious. For that reason, 3B is a position that could certainly use an upgrade.

[3Putt]

I agree that Fielder is the biggest defensive problem but Hall was leading the league in errors before being platooned. That has to count for something. How many above average fielders have led the league in errors? Not many I'm betting. I think we're splitting hairs as we both agree Hall needs to go. I'm all for a Prince trade now while his value is still high. That should yield us some pitching and improve our defensive options.

[brewjihad]

UZR includes errors in its calculation, and Hall was +6.3 runs above average at third in his playing time in 2008. He was +7 at short during the 2006 season. Hall is a very good infielder by almost any measure.

[3Putt]

Brewjihad, from where do you get your UZR stats? I'd like to study the factors they use as I have a hard time buying Bill Hall as anything but a below average fielder. Thanks!

[Ennder]

Fielder is at most 2 wins below average on defense and that is making an assumption that he is costing everyone else some fielding. It would be a big improvement but not anywhere near 10 wins.

[brewjihad]

Fangraphs has UZR and pretty much every other useful stat (except tRA maybe). Here are Hall's fielding numbers.

 

Here's a quick explanation, from Fangraphs.

RngR (range runs): The number of runs above or below average a fielder is, determined by how the fielder is able to get to balls hit in his vicinity.

 

ErrR (error runs): The number of runs above or below average a fielder is, determined by the number of errors he makes as compared to an average fielder at that position given the same distribution of balls in play.

 

UZR/150 (ultimate zone rate per 150 games): The number of runs above or below average a fielder is, per 150 defensive games.

The stat was developed by Michael Lichtman and only recently made available on fangraphs.

[sheetskout]

Fielder is at most 2 wins below average on defense and that is making an assumption that he is costing everyone else some fielding. It would be a big improvement but not anywhere near 10 wins.

Absolutely! As a former first baseman, I think some of the people in this thread are OVERESTIMATING how much of an impact picking short hops has on a game, as well as how many grounders first basemen actually receive. Maybe a win or two, but NO WHERE NEAR 5-10 wins....

[3Putt]

5 to 10 wins was based on moving both Fielder & Hall. Recheck the post.

Thanks for the link Brewjihad. I think Hall's range is overrated. He moves well side to side but he almost never gets to swinging bunts. He had the same issue coming in (or going back) on balls when he was in the outfield. That being said, the metric makes sense if a non-subjective measure of range could be determined. I'm just not convinced someone could lead the league in errors (until being platooned) and be an above average fielder.

[logan82]

Hall's range is fine. He sometimes tries to play balls off to the side even when he can get in front of them. He has a strong, but not accurate arm. He also sometimes tries to make throws when he should just hold the ball.

 

With 2 of 3 infielders making inaccurate throws I don't think people are overestimating the impact of Fielder at 1B.

[DHonks]

Hall has always had great tools, and I often advocated him being out 3b. But his play in April and May last year had me yearning for Branyan both offensively and defensively. Billy probably had the roughest stretch I've ever seen from him in both facets of the game