Time to get serious and trade Hart for pitching

[JohnBriggs12]

Okay. Melvin's plan of picking up Cameron's option then trading him after Sabathia left didn't work. So now what does he do? Well for one thing, he needs to act quickly while there are still 3 impact lefthanded bats out there (Bradley, Abreu, and Dunn) and sign one of them to play RF. I'm not a big Dunn guy, but he makes more sense in this lineup than having both Cameron and Hart. Where does that leave Hart? As the number one option to upgrade the pitching staff. Jonathon Sanchez for Hart is a fair return. We need to be realistic that Hart is not going to get you a Cain, unless of course you add more value to the deal but I don't see that happening.

 

If Hart doesn't get you suitable pitching, maybe you could revisit the Kelly Johnson for Hart deal. Johnson has played some LF. You might have to move Braun with the stronger arm to RF, but Johnson sure would give the lineup something it's lacking and he's cheaper than the FA out there.

[joepepsi]

I started a trade Corey Hart topic several months ago because I think he is the logical trading chip for the team. There are options to replace him for a year or so. Lefties Kotsay and Hinske are available. From the right side there's Juan Rivera, Badelli, Wilkerson, Jerry Hairston. Trading Hart would almost certainly put Nelson or Iribarren on the team. Or both.

[Ennder]

I like Sanchez's stuff but he hasn't shown he can control it yet. He has a 5.18 ERA in the majors so far as a heavy flyball pitcher in a big park and he has walked over 4.5 per 9. He is young and obviously could improve but he is also 26 already so that improvement needs to come sooner rather than later. I do like his overall trends but this is a trade that could really go wrong for 2009 as there is no guarantee at all that he is better than say McClung as a starter.

 

Bradley, Abreu and Dunn will likely all be overpaid so not sure it is a wise move to go out and get them. We of course could use that OBP so they are good fits for our team but Abreu and Dunn are absolute hacks in the field and Bradley makes Sheet's health record look good.

 

Now Johnson for Hart is more interesting to me.

[joepepsi]

Hart, Escobar for Adam Lind and Dustin McGowan.

[sheetswannabe]

I cant see how DM could pass up Johnson for Hart.

 

Trade Hart for Johnson

 

Trade Weeks for Cain? (Waiting for his "potential" is getting a little old)

 

Have Escobar play SS

 

Move Hardy to 3rd

 

Call up Gamel to play RF

 

**hate to rush the young guys but they will keep our budget low enough to get better pitchers**

 

Sign Fuentes

Lineup:

 

1. Escobar SS

2. Johnson 2B

3. Braun LF

4. Fielder 1B

5. Hardy 3B

6. Gamel RF

7. Cameron CF

8. Kendall C

 

Bill Hall back to super utility

 

Rotation

 

1. Gallardo

2. Cain

3. Parra

4. Bush

5. Soup

 

Closer: Fuentes

 

 

Lots of position changes I know, and it would never happen but what would you think?

[MillerParkSouth]

people were saying Fielder or Hardy wouldn't even get Cain, I HIGHLY doubt we'll get a pitcher of his stature for Dick Weeks.

[sheetswannabe]

If the deal isnt good enough you spice it up. Throw in a mid level prospect with some upside that we dont necessarily need.

[Oldcity]

I'd love to have Dunn, but I still think the Brewers will be competitive even if they don't make a big trade. I'd feel pretty good about the team if they signed either Randy Johnson or John Smoltz and signed another decent reliever, for example.

 

I expect the offense to improve even without major personnel changes. Hart, Braun, Weeks, Fielder and Hall all fell short of their projections last year. For all of them to have underperforming years again is quite unlikely.

[RyDogg66]

Sounds to me like a Corey Hart for Kelly Johnson swap was turned down by the BRewers. I gleamed that from MLBtradrumors post.

[southpaw121505]

Weeks is not even close to getting Cain, more like Fielder. Hardy is not moving to 3rd.

[TheCrew07]

people were saying Fielder or Hardy wouldn't even get Cain, I HIGHLY doubt we'll get a pitcher of his stature for Dick Weeks.

Fans here on Brewerfan.net? Fielder could pull James Shields by himself... so either of those guys could easily pull Cain. I'm not all that high on Cain to start with so I wouldn't like a trade that acquired him, but either Hardy or Fielder is enough to land a quality starting pitcher on their own.

 

Edit. To move Hart for quality pitching would be tougher, unless you they could pull a guy in AAA or AA who's ready to make the jump. I have some names I like, but I don't necessarily see a match with those organizations. For example, Neimann wouldn't be a bad return from TB, but they don't really Hart, and Neimann would likely fall between Parra and Bush statistically so he's not an impact acquisition. Escobar will not be moved by the organization unless Hardy signs a long term deal, but maybe a Hart/Salome deal could pull a McGowan, McGowan is exactly the type of pitcher I'd like the Brewers to pursue.

[Fatter than Joey]

Fielder will probably still be fat, and I am not sure his projections will improve.

 

Hall will improve a billionfold if he is platooned.

[And That]

Dick Weeks.

I'm not sure if this was an attempt at humor or not, but this is a)never anything Rickie Weeks has gone by, and b)not the kind of innuendo-based nicknaming that is acceptable on this forum.

[Pudster13]

Hart, Escobar for Adam Lind and Dustin McGowan.

I really like this proposal.

 

Lind is a lefthanded RF would can get on base more than Hart.

 

McGowan has ACE potentional and is still relatively young.

 

Toronto is looking for a long term solution at SS.

 

P.S. It was once rumored that we'd get McGowan straight up for Overbay. At the time, I would have taken that over the package of Bush, Gross, Zach Jack.

[trwi7]

I really don't think the Jays do that.

 

1. McGowan is out until at least May.

2. They really don't need Hart with Rios, Wells and Snider.

3. They are short on pitching. They just lost Burnett to free agency and Marcum is out all of next year.

[fleehaw]

McGowan is currently injured so it's unlikely he'll be traded any time soon.

 

Why is the sky falling?

 

The Brewers head into 2009 with the same offensive starters as 2008. They should see improvement having Cameron all year and Hall being platooned at 3B. You're likely to see some improvement from the young players and conversely it's certainly possible that you see some decline from vets like Cameron and Kendall. Overall, IMO the offense will be better.

 

The Brewers rotation isn't as bad as people think compared to 2008. A full year of Gallardo in '09 should be about equal to what Sheets and Gallardo did in '08. Bush and Suppan are constants and should put up around the same numbers. Parra should improve with his experience last season. So, to be about equal to '08's rotation, the Brewers need to replace Villanueva/McClung/Sabathia's spot in the rotation. McClung would most likely be a step down from this trio, but as a #5 SP, would a make a big difference win wise? A bargain FA signing like Johnson or Penney probably would rectify this.

 

As for the bullpen:

Villanueva=Torres

Stetter=Shouse

Riske '09>Riske '08 (assuming he's healthy)

McClung=McClung

The question becomes can a combination of Dillard, Swindle, Coffey, DeFelice, Morlan and Julio be better than Gagne, Mota, and Turnbow. I certainly think that's possible.

 

So, IMO the '09 Brewers could be better than the '08 Brewers. However, it's hard as a fan to sit idlely by when other competitors are improving their team. As much as I love the trade talk, I think a couple tweaks to the roster will result in a solid team without sacrificing a player like Hart, Hardy, or Fielder this year.

[nate82]

A trade to the Rays is where I would see Hart going to. Since the Rays have already traded away Jackson I don't see the Rays making another move. It has been known that the Rays are looking for a RH OF for next year. Sonnanstine, Niemann, and Jackson were all known to be available from the Rays.

[Ennder]

Dick Weeks.

I'm not sure if this was an attempt at humor or not, but this is a)never anything Rickie Weeks has gone by, and b)not the kind of innuendo-based nicknaming that is acceptable on this forum.

I'm guessing it was a play on people calling him Richie since a lot of people with that name go by the nickname Dick. I don't really understand why someone would want to go by that nickname though or what it has to do with Richie.

[MNBrew]

If the deal isnt good enough you spice it up. Throw in a mid level prospect with some upside that we dont necessarily need.

Turn it around. If Cabrera's not good enough in exchange for an above average, multiple Gold Glove CF with proven power, run production, & speed, then just throw in Igawa to spice it up and get it done. The point is, if you need to be impressed to even begin considering giving the deal serious thought, the addition of meaningless spare parts doesn't get you any closer to being impressed.

 

Haven't the Giants said they're not looking to move Matt Cain? If so, then why would adding our junk to the deal make them any more motivated?

[aracko]

I just dont feel like trading Hart is the answer right now. We would be selling at a low point after his 2nd half last year. Hart in that first half of the season was probably our MVP. The guy is a future star and I would hate to see him moved.......unless its to centerfield.

[MNBrew]

I just dont feel like trading Hart is the answer right now. We would be selling at a low point after his 2nd half last year. Hart in that first half of the season was probably our MVP. The guy is a future star and I would hate to see him moved.......unless its to centerfield.

You hit it right on the nose!

 

Melvin's very, very good about knowing when NOT to sell low on someone.

[joepepsi]

Hart in that first half of the season was probably our MVP. The guy is a future star and I would hate to see him moved.......unless its to centerfield.

Braun and Fielder both had higher OPS' in the first half. Hardy's first half OPS was .827, Hart's .831. Factor in defense and I'd say Hardy was the most valuable player the first half of the year. Hardy was probably the MVP of the team in 2008.

 

fwiw, Weeks' OPS in the 2nd half was .829

[endaround]

If you limit it to position players, Hardy or Braun are pretty well tied otherwise its Sabathia followed closely by Sheets.

[monty57]

There was a time when I thought a trade of one of our "big name" position players was going to happen this offseason. However:

 

-The trade of LaPorta made trading Fielder this offseason less likely

-Hardy said he's always wanted to be a Brewer, making me think they'll lock him up long term, potentially moving him to 3B after this season

-After his poor second half, Hart wouldn't land the young stud pitcher the Brewers covet. Plus, trading him would leave a big hole in RF. Moving Gamel from poor fielding AA 3B to starting MLB RF doesn't seem likely to me without first playing the position in AAA. Doing a trade that will hurt you unless another deal happens cold lead to bad things.

-Weeks probably doesn't net you too much in a trade, and he actually provides value on this team as one of the few players who takes a walk now and then. While I wouldn't hate to see him traded, he'd probably get you less value in return than he's worth to the team.

-If the Yankee fiasco taught us anything, it's that Cameron won't net us the young starter we hoped he would.

 

Although it may still happen, Cameron not being traded means that Melvin can only add one mid-tier ($10MM or so) salary this offseason. As much as I like the idea of Dunn & Abreau, starting pitching is far and away our biggest concern. Since I don't think Fielder or Hardy will be traded and none of Hart, Weeks, Hall or Cameron will net us the young starter, we will need to use the free cash on SP. As I see it, this can happen several ways:

 

1) We can sign another Suppan-type deal. Find a decent starting pitcher and sign him for 3-4 years for $8-12MM per year.

2) We can actually make an attempt to re-sign Sheets. Crazy as it sounds, he's sitting out there without a contract and we're not talking to him.

3) We can sign Johnson or Smoltz to a one-year deal

4) We can sit around and hope the economy has everyone so scared that we can net one of the decent starting pitchers from (1) above to a one-year deal. There is talk that some players will take one-year deals in hopes that the market will be up next year and they can get a better deal.

5) We can do a deal for someone like Millwood as was brought up in another thread

 

Along with most everyone on this board, I really don't want to see a repeat of the Suppan deal. I'm also not really big on sitting around hoping something happens. Therefore, my first choice would be for a Johnson / Smoltz / Sheets signing. If that doesn't happen, I'll hope we can take someone like Millwood in a salary dump so we wouldn't have to give up much in terms of players. This would solidify our rotation this year and make us a playoff-capable team without creating a big hole somewhere else (as would happen if we traded Hart, Fielder or Cameron). It's only one year, so it won't hamper us for the future. If we're playing well, we'll have some money to add a player. If not, both the pitcher and Cameron can be dealt mid-season. Next season, the current minor leaguers will be ready to step in, allowing us the option to trade some of the players being discussed here without creating a huge hole.

 

I have little doubt that Melvin will do something to land a pitcher, but my gut tells me we're going to end up signing someone from the "whatever's left" pile to a one-year deal. He'll put up #4/5 type numbers and hopefully will be enough to keep us in the Wild Card hunt. I will, however, keep on hoping for that Sheets / Johnson / Smoltz signing until they've all signed elsewhere.

[fleehaw]

I thought I'd resurrect this thread, not because I think Hart needs to be traded, but because I have a proposal that I really like that involves him.

 

Hart, Salome/Lucroy (preferably Salome), and another decent prospect to the Rays for Perez and Niemann.

 

The Rays are apparently looking for a RH hitter with rumored interest in Burrell. Burrell is a better hitter, but Hart is guaranteed for 3 years and should be a good deal less expensive (probably around $15M total over his 3 arby years compared to ??? for Burrell). Not to mention he's younger, faster, and better defensively (although DH is Burrell's likely position with the Rays).

 

Perez would give the Brewers a different dimension to their lineup (switch hitter, OBP heavy OPS, likely leadoff hitter) and would likely become the post-Cameron CF. IMO, Niemann looks to be a tick behind Gallardo and Parra, but probably better than Bush. And parting with him would still leave the Rays with Wade Davis as their #6 SP.