Alcides Escobar to Oakland?

[Pudster13]

Now that the A's have lost out on Rafael Furcal for SS, I say we should trade them Escobar for one of their top pitching prospects.

 

Melvin said Hardy isn't going anywhere. Personally, I feel Escobar is being overrated a bit. I say sell high on this kid's potential.

 

I know prospect trades are rare, but the A's have an abundance of pitching prospects, and we have an abundance of hitting prospects, so a trade would at least make sense.

 

Which of these three pitchers could Escobar fetch?

 

RHP Trevor Cahill

LHP Brett Anderson

LHP Gio Gonzalez

 

Thoughts?

[truecrew]

How about Hall to oakland

[Pudster13]

I don't think most Brewer fans "buy" into the whole sell high/buy low philosphy.

 

Bill Hall has a very low value right now. We are not going to be able to get anything good (if anything at all) for him given his contract the next two years.

 

Everyone also wants to trade Rickie Weeks right now. I think that would be a mistake.

 

Everyone seems to think Escobar is the second coming, which he is not. I think he'll be similar to Orlando Cabrera in his prime.

 

I say sell high on Escobar's potential and see if we can get a near MLB-ready starting pitching prospect for him.

[brewerguy71]

I dont think Escobar could bring Anderson or Cahill. Anderson is Oakland's top prospect and one of the top 10 in the game perhaps. Escobar will be a top 100 prospect going into the year, but he definitely couldnt bring top quality pitching by himself.

 

I would go the complete opposite direction on this. I think Escobar's defense is premier and Hardy is the one who is overvalued. I feel that Hardy's trade value will never be higher than what it is right now.

 

Hardy could probably bring at least Cahill or Inoa and a bat such as Cardenas and another mid level prospect.

[JJHardy7]

Escobar will be a top 100 prospect going into the year, but he definitely couldnt bring top quality pitching by himself.

 

He's been ranked in the top 10 by some services (6 or 8 IIRC). It's in the minor league forum.

[Pudster13]

Hardy is an all-star shortstop. Escobar will never be.

 

I don't think we can afford to trade Hardy for prospects (even pitching) as still expect to be contenders.

[Oldcity]

Well we certainly don't know whether Escobar will be an All-Star, but both shortstops the Brewers have are two of their biggest trading chips. I still suspect they'll keep both.

[TheCrew07]

I think there's a whole segment of the brewerfan.net fan base that isn't in love with Escobar, and only a few of us that think he has the potential to be a special player. Endaround and I have argued this to the point I don't even want to discuss it anymore.

 

Escobar will likely be a top 20 prospect on the BA list, not that BA is gospel as I won't necessarily agree with where the Brewer system is ranked, but they are the premier authority on MiLB. He's a fantastic prospect and I think trading him will be counter productive to the long term health of the franchise as the Brewers will need a significant number of quality contributing prearby players year in and year out to remain competitive.

 

The greatest trade value is in trading established MLB players, not continually thinning out the system for rentals and to plug holes. Teams that can afford 20 million per year salaries are playing on a different level, they can afford to plug holes in FA which isn't a market the Brewers will ever be players in unless baseball's economics change.

 

Generally speaking I think the Brewers should be sellers, acquiring as much young talent as possible and then flipping the surplus when needs arise. I really like the idea of trying to get ahead of the curve talent wise, especially with the pitching. I don't see the Brewers competing for World Series until that happens, the club doesn't have the means to build the rotation necessary any other way.

 

Hardy is an all-star shortstop. Escobar will never be.

 

That's simply your opinion and if you want to make a trade for pitching Hardy is the vastly more valuable trade piece.

[yoshii8]

From everything I've read about Escobar, he is a very talented player, who is an unbelievable defensive shortstop w/ speed and is a good contact hitter? What makes you so sure that he is being overrated, and will never be an all-star shortstop? It also seems that the Brewers are very high on him, I think it would take a lot for the Brewers to trade him, and I'm pretty sure he is worth a lot to other teams also.

 

I'm not a big fan of trading Escobar, I'd rather let him develop more in AAA this season, and then if he is ready deal w/ the situation in the next off-season.

[apirk]

I love how Escobar is overrated now. The guy has had 4 major league at bats lets just see how good he is before we even start to bash him.

[homer]

Hardy is an all-star shortstop. Escobar will never be.

Can you tell me who's going to win the Kentucky Derby? I'd like to win some money on a sure thing.

[BrewCrewForever]

If we are gonna trade a player the caliber of Escobar I want back a big league ready and proven pitcher. A HUGE prospect like Alcides should bring that back in return.

[logan82]

I would only trade Escobar if JJ signed a 4-5 year contract this off season. If we had to trade one I would trade JJ since he is going to be gone in a couple years. Right now I wouldn't trade either.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think there's a whole segment of the brewerfan.net fan base that isn't in love with Escobar, and only a few of us that think he has the potential to be a special player. Endaround and I have argued this to the point I don't even want to discuss it anymore.

 

It's just hard to make of what Escobar could become imo. His 2008 success was helped by a very high BABIP (.380), which isn't his fault per se... it's just that stat tends to jump around from year to year. Can he sustain a .325-ish AVG without a stratospheric BABIP? I think without question Escobar is an elite defensive SS (or will become one). I haven't gotten to see him play in person, but there are so many accounts from those who have that I can't really find reason to dispute them.

 

At the plate, he still is mysterious imo. He hasn't shown an ability to draw walks, and without more power it will be hard to sustain an AVG around .320 or so to get on base enough to not cancel out some (if not all) of his defensive value. Perhaps it goes without saying, but I think 2009 is a very important season for Alcides & his value.

[Never Outhustled]

He's a fantastic prospect and I think trading him will be counter productive to the long term health of the franchise

What if we traded him for a longterm solution at a position of need, like 3B or SP? I'm thinking Escobar and Gwynn for Chase Headley or Escobar for 1 of Minnesota's young starters.

 

Trading Escobar makes sense because of the presence of the best athlete in the organization, SS Brent Brewer, and he's only a year behind Escobar.

[TheCrew07]

I know you really like Brewer, and I've sung his praises in the past, but he's so raw and the comments from his former teammates this year have given me pause. He also won't be ready in time to replace Hardy.

 

I think for a prospect to pull a stud MiLB pitcher he needs to be power prospect... defense and average just isn't valued enough for that.

 

In theory I'd still rather move Hardy and get a pitcher + than a 1 for 1 with Escobar, Hardy has greater value.

[Pudster13]

I don't think the Padres would be as willing to trade Chase Headley but maybe we'd be able to pry Kevin Kouzmanoff from them.

[southpaw121505]

Escobar won't ever be an all star? good to know..I think his upside is more like Jose Reyes than Orlando Cabrera. I'd trade him only for good MLB ready pitching and only if we buy out at least a year of arby for Hardy

[monkeyman343434]

you want to trade for Kouzmanoff? the guy who had, what, a .300 obp last year?

and, you want to deal escobar because he is "overvalued," well if that's the case, we should deal hardy as quickly as we can

[Tbadder]

What's up with hating on out best prospect. On a team that has exactly one good defensive player (that we're trying to get rid of) it would be nice to see some way above average defense. I'd also like to see a very young man with a lithe body develop over the years into a 40 doubles 10 triples kinda guy. Escobar has shown real improvement throughout most of his career and dumping him now would be wasteful in my mind. Now if he could really bring a top ten stud pitcher okay, but it my sense that this kind of deal really never happens.

[Weeks4MVP]

I love how Escobar is overrated now. The guy has had 4 major league at bats lets just see how good he is before we even start to bash him.

If anything he is underrated. He's batting .500 in his career in the majors.

[logan82]

On a team that has exactly one good defensive player (that we're trying to get rid of) it would be nice to see some way above average defense.

Hardy is considered to be a very good defensive SS. If he wasn't, I, and I am sure the organization, would want to move him to 3B and make room for Escobar.

 

I don't think anybody really dislikes Escobar, it's just that he plays behind one of our best defenders who is a good hitter. The defensive upgrade seems minimal with what looks to be a big falloff in offense. If he has a good year, or half year at AAA then we could probably trade JJ and not lose much with Escobar. He has shown improvement, but I think he still needs to show he can hit AAA pitching before coming up to the big club.

[Tbadder]

Fair enough Logan. That's a good point, and I agree it would be nice to see how he hits AAA pitching. The only thing I don't agree with is Hardy's defensive prowess. I think he's major league average, maybe slightly above (I know there's plenty of disagreement over this) but I think Escobar is gonna be elite, and on a team that will always be pitching poor because of the incredible expense, a truly first class SS is a necessity.

[TooLiveBrew]

Hardy was rated at or near the top by many defensive metrics for 2008, fwiw. And Hardy was elite offensively (at SS).

 

 

I'd also like to see a very young man with a lithe body develop over the years into a 40 doubles 10 triples kinda guy.

 

I think everyone here would like to see that, but the question is whether or not that should be expected. And even more importantly, can he get on base enough? You could play a guy enough to get 40-ish 2Bs, but he might not necessarily deserve it.

[MNBrew]

Hardy was described as pretty much Major League-ready defensively at the time the Brewers drafted him. That's one of the things Yount raved about to the Brewers' scouting staff. The question was whether or not his bat would come around. That remained a legit question even through his first year or so in the bigs.