Top Prospect Fan Poll -- Results on homepage

[Mike]

This would be interesting to find out from those that submitted rankings.

 

For me, I saw a total of 10 of the 20 players I ranked. Here is how:

 

During the Calif college season, I saw Fredrickson, Komatsu and Schafer multiple times during the 07 and 08 campaigns. While in Helena this summer I saw the team play four times and while in West Virginia I watched a total of six games.

 

On a business trip to Florida I caught one Manatees game, so in all 10.

 

Mike

[pogokat]

i've seen most of the power 50 guys multiple times...actually...i've seen about everyone drafted since 2002, with the exception of the 2008 draft guys..

[colbyjack]

Rigoberto Almonte was the player I had to look up.

 

Mike, you're one of the lucky ones that have seen so many of the team's prospects play. Ever since the Brewers moved their low-A affiliate away from Beloit, first-hand reports are few and far between (although some here have been fortunate to take in some games), and fortunately that will change next year when most of us will have a chance to travel to Appleton to follow the young pipeline to Milwaukee.

 

A good chunk of the players that I have seen in person on my list I was able to watch before they were even drafted by the Brewers, and I haven't seen them since they have been part of the organization. I saw Brewer and Jeffress as part of the 2005 Aflac game, Scarpetta at the 2007 Perfect Game Indoor Showcase and Odorizzi at last year's Indoor Showcase.

 

Dillard, Gamel, Escobar and Salome are a little easier since they all had cups of coffee with the big-league Brewers last year. Same goes for Nelson, who I, and many others around here, also got to see play in Beloit.

 

I got to see quite a bit of Komatsu at Cal State Fullerton and Gillespie at Oregon State following the college game on TV.

[wvpowerblkwel]

I've seen 18 of my 20, and boy have I enjoyed it! It has been an amazing pipeline of talent through here while they were in WV. You guys better fill that park in Appleton or I'm gonna be really upset! We get the Pirate talent here in Charleston now...I just don't think it will compare.

[colbyjack]

Have their been any stories in your area about where the Pirates plan to have Pedro Alvarez make his debut? I would imagine past low-A, but that would be pretty cool for you if you had the chance to see Alvarez, even if it were only for a month or two.

[wvpowerblkwel]

I haven't heard anything definite, but I did hear one Pirate higher up comment on that, and he seemed to indicate because of his "layoff" last year, he could possibly start in Low-A....like you said, even if only for a month or two, that would be pretty cool. I'm heading to FL in mid march to watch ball for a few days and will dig around to see what I can find out about him while I'm there for sure.

[TheCrew07]

*taps his foot impatiently*

[clancyphile]

*taps his foot impatiently*

*wonders how Cody did, and gets some carrots, celery, and snowpeas with ranch dressing*

[colbyjack]

Wait no longer...thanks to Brian for getting this up so quickly, and I look forward to reading the reactions to the results.

 

http://www.brewerfan.net/...wArticle.do?articleId=287

 

Also, while clancy had Chris Cody rated the highest at the #4 spot, Cody did receive four other votes: One at #9, #13, #15 and #17. The second top 10 vote has caused me not to be too hard on clancy for that vote, and I hope he turns out better than the collective memory of Jeff Pickler, Jeff Housman and Raul Cassanova http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif.

 

Thanks again to everyone that participated.

[twobrewers]

8. Lorenzo Cain - OF

Total points: 678. Highest vote: 2nd (1 vote). Most popular position: 14th (16 votes).

Is that a typo? Cain received 16 votes for the 14th best prospect - and still rated out to the 8th best overall?

 

Josh Butler - 5 points overall. Gross for Butler might end up as one of the worst Melvin trades.

 

Glad to see everyone hasn't quite given up on Mark Rogers. Actually, considering that Brewers adding him to the 40 man roster, I think Rogers probably deserved a vote from me as well. (The Brewers must think he has a chance to reclaim his status yet)

[colbyjack]

Yes that is a typo. I'll see if Brian can fix that for me.

[logan82]

Have to say I am surprised to see Gamel and Escobar get any votes outside of the top 3.

[clancyphile]

Have to say I am surprised to see Gamel and Escobar get any votes outside of the top 3.

I dropped him to 7th because of the presence of JJ Hardy (who has shortstop pretty much covered as long as he is in Milwaukee - the Brewers need to get him signed to a long-term deal) and Rickie Weeks (who I'd be inclined to have Escobar replace if he doesn't put it all together).

 

Also, I think Taylor Green might be an option at second, and his OBP skills and left-handed bat would probably be better FOR THE BREWERS than Escobar's skill set.

[Team Canada]

The omission of Cain, Lawrie, and Lucroy on someone's ballot have to be accidental, right??

[wvpowerblkwel]

My only thoughts are that a lot of you guys really missed a couple strong pitchers in Bramhall and Brae Wright. Bobby will be 24 this year and Brae is 25, so both those guys have the college experience that should put them in a position to contribute much sooner than a high school guy...otherwise list looks pretty much as expected by me.

[colbyjack]

The omission of Cain, Lawrie, and Lucroy on someone's ballot have to be accidental, right??

 

I think last year there were actually fewer players that appeared on everyone's list. I agree that those players deserve to be on there, but everyone is entitled to their opinions, which is the beauty of the fan poll.

[jjfanec]

What I love about our minor league system right now is how many guys on that list look poised to make big jumps this year. Guys like Green, Lucroy, and Cain, who are already pretty high, seem like they just consistently get better. With all three at AA to start the year it will be fun to watch if they have Gamel-esque type jumps this year. Then you have the young guys like Lawrie, Odorizzi, Scarpetta, and Peralta who all could make big jumps this year as well.

I feel like last years list had a fair amount of guys ranked high who had not really produced consistently like Darren Ford, Brewer, and Jeffress. Even with the loss of talent like Parra to the big league club and LaPorta, Brantley, Bryson, and Ford in trades I feel pretty good about this group. I think next years list could be down right sick if Gamel and Escobar stay in AAA most of the year. Those guys staying and guys like Cain, Green, and Lucroy being right behind, and the next crop with Lawrie and friends looking to turn heads could make the next fan poll fun to watch. Obviously, some of these guys could have rough years but I have been impressed with their improvement as they move up.

[homer]

Given Gindl's height, is it possible the Brewers move him to the infield? Maybe 2nd base?

[colbyjack]

Gindl's a lefty, leaving first base as the only opportunity for him on the IF. I'd say that will never happen, but Ron Belliard has played a little (no pun intended) first base during his career.

[jjfanec]

Gindl's a lefty, leaving first base as the only opportunity for him on the IF. I'd say that will never happen, but Ron Belliard has played a little (no pun intended) first base during his career.

Thanks for pointing that out. As a baseball fan I never noticed that there were very few left-handed infielders outside of first base. I remember thinking it was weird in high school when we had a left-handed shortstop but I did not realize how uncommon it was. That does leave Gindl as an OF only type prospect.

[RobertR]

I dropped Gamel out of the top 3 because of his defense. I consider him a first base prospect, and I think you have to put up really spectacular numbers at that position.

 

Then again, I'm the one that had Lawrie #1 on my ballot. I had Cain at #2, probably the toughest one to defend, since I like his breadth of tools and the fact that he'll play a premium defensive position. Cain won't win a Gold Glove like I fully expect Escobar to, but I fully expect Cain to be above average offensively at CF, while I need to see more out of Escobar offensively since he might have had a flukey season based on BABIP. Basically, I see Cain without some of the upside of the other top prospects, but who's also really unlikely to flame out offensively or defensively.

 

Heck, here's my ballot.

 

1. Brett Lawrie

2. Lorenzo Cain

3. Alcides Escobar

4. Jeremy Jeffries

5. Mat Gamel

6. Angel Salome

7. Jonathan Lucroy

8. Caleb Grindl

9. Jake Odorizzi

10. Taylor Green

11. Alex Periard

12. Zach Braddock

13. Brent Brewer

14. Cole Gillespie

15. Cody Scarpetta

16. Evan Anundsen

17. Cutter Dykstra

18. Brad Nelson

19. Efrain Nieves

20. Evan Frederickson

 

Basically the same Top 20 as Brewerfan, but with a slightly different order. And, without Aguilar, Dillard, and Peralta, as I really don't like the upside of minor league relief pitchers. Especially minor league relief pitchers at lower levels.

 

If I had to do the ballot over, I'd flip flop Green and Grindl.

 

Robert

[sbrylski]

I had Lawrie 4th, the only reason being he hasn't had a "professional" AB. I hate that term though, because he's played in the Olympics and previously faced better talent than he will debut "professionally" against. Unless Jeffress makes big strides in his control numbers this year, I strongly expect Lawrie to be #1 on the P50 by the end of next season, even if Escobar doesn't graduate.

[And That]

And, without Aguilar, Dillard, and Peralta, as I really don't like the upside of minor league relief pitchers. Especially minor league relief pitchers at lower levels.

I agree that relief pitchers have inherent lower value than starting pitchers due to the smaller number of innings they'll pitch in the big leagues if everything turns out well for them. A starting pitcher who can pitch 190 innings of 4.00 ERA ball is more valuable than a reliever who can throw 60 innings of 3.50 ERA ball. With that said...

 

In the past, I've often been down on the value of relief pitcher prospects too. However, something the last few years of watching Doug Melvin build a bullpen have taught me is that perhaps I should value them more than I have. A small-mid payroll level team like the Brewers have to parse their spending more effectively than clubs with bigger payrolls. One of the places where the Brewers have spent a good chunk of money recently is in the bullpen - I don't think this is really a tenable practice moving forward as the offense and starting pitching gets more expensive. And really, except for a couple guys at the end of the bullpen, why overpay for the limited number of innings that 4th-7th guys in the pen are going to get?

 

Developing effective (and hopefully exceptional) young, cheap relievers should be (and I think, is becoming) a priority for the Brewers as they have to realign more of their payroll costs out of the bullpen and in to rotation and everyday lineup. While people have cringed at a signing like Gagne or a trade like the Linebrink deal, those things were brought upon the Brewers by the ineffectiveness of their farm system in developing relievers. They develop literally two more decent relievers in the past two years, we still have Inman, Garrison, Thatcher (less the value of Frederickson and Dykstra, the comp picks) and whatever $10 mil would have bought us instead of Gagne last year.

 

Relief prospects may not have a ton of intrinsic value as they relate to other types of prospects unless they are really dominating type guys, but they have a lot of value to a payroll-conscious team like the Brewers. I suppose you could argue that this logic follows the claim that I'm assigning more value to a prospect due to team needs (which I disagree with - if a guy is a good prospect, he's a good prospect whether he's blocked or not), but with so many teams at or below the Brewers' payroll level, relief prospects have a lot of value around the league. That's why I think guys like Aguilar and Dillard (and Pena when he's on) definitely have a claim at being amongst the best of the Brewers' prospects.

[colbyjack]

Well put Toby. My opinion has also changed over the years when it comes to evaluating relievers as it pertains to prospect status. I still think it's a little crazy to draft a projected closer or short reliever early in the draft (unless you have a handful of early picks), but being able to develop a few bullpen arms from within is an overlooked area of team management.

 

I look at the Twins, who have developed a couple of pitchers almost exlusively as relievers in Jesse Crain and Pat Neshek. Both have been among the team's top prospects over the past several years. Of course overall the Twins are good at developing talent, from starters, relievers and positional players, but hopefully the Brewers get to that point as well where they are internally addressing all aspects of their team. Mitch Stetter is a good start, and Dillard, Aguilar, Pena, etc. may be next.

 

I agree that players being groomed exclusively as relievers in the lower levels of the minor leagues are more difficult to get too excited about (Omar Aguilar is a good example, since we knew how good his stuff was but needed to see him be productive against more advanced hitters before getting too excited), but I don't think that applies to someone like Wily Peralta, who isn't being groomed exclusively as a reliever. His talent/status is more in line with Jeremy Jeffress' IMO.

[RobertR]

While I know where you guys are coming from, I'm of the school that would rather convert a failed starter into a reliever than groom a guy exclusively for relief. And that's particularly because I think guys who only pitch about 60 innings a year are at a disadvantage for developing. Aguilar isn't without issues at AA, a too high BB/9 rate specifically, and IMO, it's going to take some time to work out those issues at the higher levels. I'm really not expecting him in MLB before 2010. Beyond that, I have concerns about his height and weight.

 

Obviously, relievers do develop as relievers. And, young, cheap relievers have value at the major league level. But, I'm more of a "take a group of them and see what sticks" guy than someone who believes in valuing any one reliever, especially a right handed reliever, too much.

 

Robert